@clarkcontrol said:

The second measurement is peak readings derived from the entire movement?

Clark

Yes, the max. readout of the whole I. Allegro movement

@Another User said:

I would like to hear the mock-up(s) to determine if the dynamics and balances between instruments are realistic to my ears. Do you have an mp3 that you could post?

@Angelo Clematide said:

Felix and Rob

 

And now, please tell us what you do with this data, respectively how you apply it in a useful manner.

 

Angelo

 

 

Orchestration and Dynamics

There is an important difference between absolute and relative dynamics. Every instrument has some relative dynamic control in every register. However, some instruments in particular registers simply cannot achieve certain absolute dynamics: A group of brass playing in their high registers will never be very soft; a low flute can never be extremely loud. The best rule for a beginner is: Orchestrate your dynamics instead of just writing them as textual indications. Especially at dynamic extremes, ensure that the instruments and the registers chosen are conducive to the dynamic level required.

As a rough guide, here is a table of what the various families can achieve in absolute dynamics.

* the clarinet can play whisper soft, provided it is not written too high.

What is important in this chart is how to achieve dynamic extremes. Strings and certain percussion, (tam-tam, cymbals, and the lower drums) can start practically inaudibly. For sheer power, nothing has the force and impact of (high) brass plus percussion.

The notation of dynamics is often problematic for beginners. A good approach is to act as though there are only four dynamic levels: pp, mf, f, and ff. First, orchestrate the passage so that the absolute dynamic level desired easily results from the choice of instruments and registers. Second, think of dynamics as character indications. Choose which dynamic of the above four best suits the passage. Third, avoid the middle dynamics (mp, mf) as starting points: these are what players do when there are no dynamics notated at all. Finally, beginners should avoid writing different dynamics for different instruments: This requires a great deal of experience, since players normally do not see each others dynamic indications, and normally tend to aim for rough balance, unless the conductor specifies otherwise.

Reference:

http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/personnel/Belkin/bk.o/o3.html

    Do you write your music that is to be performed with absolute dynamics? I understand writing absolute dynamics for something that will be realized only on a computer, but it seems that if a flute player sees a marking of mf in the low regester, he/she will hold in reserve a good deal for louder dynamics. If I played the Rachmaninoff 3 piano concerto (nothing more than a dream, for now), and at the end where the piano is playing only in the upper regester it said mf (I am not sure what the actual score says. I am just using a 'what-if'), I would assume that this part should not be played to the full potential of the piano. Obviously, this part is the huge climax of a huge piece, and should be played with all the power that has been built up through the rest of the piece. But, in using absolute dynamics to notate this piece, Rachmaninoff would have had to put something like a mf there, as the piano just cannot play an orchestral ff in that regester as loud as the brass that comes in.

    So my qestion is, are absolute dynamics a good option for music to be performed by an orchestra?

     Colin Thomson

@ColinThomson said:

So my qestion is, are absolute dynamics a good option for music to be performed by an orchestra?

 

 

 Colin Thomson

@ColinThomson said:

So my qestion is, are absolute dynamics a good option for music to be performed by an orchestra?

 

 

 Colin Thomson

Angelo makes a good point.  Good arranging skills will let the ensemble balance naturally.

And a piccolo can bury an orchestra.

Clark

So I see clarkcontrol...

You've gone over to the Dark Side.

LUUUKE....I AM YOUR FAAAAHHHTHER...

Angelo and I have been seeing each other for weeks now. Maybe its time that you and I broke up. Sorry I cheated on you, but I wanted to see if this new thing took before cutting you off.[6]

Actually, look back a page and you'll see that I've managed to thwart the recruitment of two new stormtroopers. They have now gone underground and are being trained in the ways of the pagan alliance.

Liberty and Freedom for all!

Clark

You are subtle, aren't you, Clarkcontrol? I had no idea that volume automation was the way of the pagan alliance.

Colin Thomson 

SSHHHH!!

The Empire is listening!

If they know that automating volume levels erodes the dark forces of a dynamic range template, they will find some sneaky way of adopting our weaponry into their paradigm, thus annexing our well-intentioned cure-all into their subversive attack on musical dignity everywhere!

Preserve the faith in your ears and your musical instincts!

Oh, yeah, and Liberty and Freedom for all!

Clark

@William said:

So I see clarkcontrol...

You've gone over to the Dark Side.

We would be honoured if you would join us!

We find your lack of faith disturbing. Search your feelings

or you have failed me for the last time, Admiral. You will

join us or die, master

@ColinThomson said:

You are subtle, aren't you, Clarkcontrol? I had no idea that volume automation was the way of the pagan alliance.

Colin Thomson 

To young luke warm Skywalker, 

@JohnnyMarks said:

Felix and others, "Intensities of Orchestral Instrument Scales Played at Prescribed Dynamic Markings" is a 1964 MIT paper, principal author William Strawn, available from AES online. I've uploaded a couple snippets to: http://homepage.mac.com/johnnymarks Useful data and interesting observations in the paper. Worth the $20 download. Cheers.

Nice find, thanks.

Before I make myself the stress to explain any further digital audio production specifications, I post a few links for my distinguished friends here.

Below some links to papers which deal with the subject of mastering, signal overload, transcoding etc.:

[B]Overload in Signal Conversion[/B]

A paper about the headroom needed in processing, routing and reproduction of digital signals to prevent distortion and listening fatigue from happening. It includes a discussion of AD, DA, sample rate conversion and data reduction systems.

by Soren Nielsen & Thomas Lund

[url]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/nielsen_lund_2003_overload.pdf[/url]

[B]Mastering and Formats - Stop Counting Samples[/B]

Report from the frontline of the CD Loudness war, 2006: It's not over yet. Read about distortion developing in CD players, data reduction systems etc. The Appendix suggests improved procedures to follow in production and mastering.

by Thomas Lund

[url]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/lund_2006_stop_counting_samples_aes121.pdf[/url]

[B]0 dBFS+ Levels in Digital Mastering[/B]

This paper examines the sonic consequences when 0dBFS+ signals are reproduced in typical consumer equipment. The performance of a variety of domestic CD players exposed to such signals are presented and evaluated.

by Soren Nielsen & Thomas Lund

[url]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/nielsen_lund_2000_0dbfs_le.pdf[/url]

[B]Level Control in Digital Mastering[/B]

Music mastering is becoming a battle for maximum level rather than a quest for audio quality, because counting consecutive samples at OdBFS is not an adequate restriction of level.

by Soren Nielsen & Thomas Lund

[url]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/nielsen_lund_1999_level_co.pdf[/url]

[B]The Secret of the Mastering Engineer[/B]

Mastering is an art and a science. In this acclaimed booklet, Bob Katz shares good advice about monitoring, metering and processing. About listening to the music and supporting it as the road to Nirvana - from one of the true yogis of our industry.

by Bob Katz

[url]http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/katz_1999_secret_mastering.pdf[/url]

cont.

Level Practices

Part I: The 20th Century Dealing With Peaks

http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html

Part II: How To Make Better Recordings in the 21st Century - An Integrated Approach to Metering, Monitoring, and Leveling Practices

http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system.html

.

Thanks very much, Angelo. I look forward to reading through those papers.

Colin Thomson