Why don't you want to use the Object Monitor !

May be there is a change in the AudioMidi

@Macker said:

Cyril, I'm glad to meet another retired professional engaged in the joy and challenges of digital music-making! I was formerly a weapon systems designer.

I started getting seriously busy with digital sampling techniques for orchestral music production in 2001, using a 400 MHz iMac with Logic Audio Platinum v3.5, Reason v1, and Peter Siedlaczek's Advanced Orchestra samples. I immediately recognized Logic's Environment to be a wonderful facility in which to develop a concept I'd worked on theoretically back in the '70s - i.e., replacing Equal Temperament with authentic orchestral intonation. Way back then I had designed a mutliple-derivative divider to produce the set of tones I needed (using very high speed Motorola 2900 ECL chips), with the intention of synthesizing orchestral instrument sounds. Well I soon realised it was extremely difficult to synthesize authentic-sounding orchestral instruments, and was glad to see that the digital-sampling technique was far superior for orchestral music production. But then I became very busy with the stimulating challenges of high-end military work, and my ideas for music production lay dormant for years.

So anyway, Logic's Environment has been my main place of work ever since I first met it 21 years ago.

 

Perhaps I didn't clearly explain my own current situation with Logic. I have no problems working in High Sierra with VEPro AU3 7.0.1056 and Logic 10.4.8, using my AU3 multiport template. I shall continue with this configuration for as long as possible, hoping that Apple will eventually fix the new problems in Logic 10.7. But I also have a Big Sur boot volume in which I keep an eye on the state of affairs with later Logic and VEPro versions (though of course I won't know about Apple M1 operation until I buy M1 hardware).

I'm sure other Logic users who don't have the convenience of working with an older Logic in an older macOS may want to know about your VEPro AU2 multiport workaround, Cyril. Perhaps you will post something about it here? (Toutefois, Je suis certainement d'accord pour dire que la perspective d'une arriviste déclenché, jetant sa merde tout atour en conséquence, est désagréable pour vous et moi. Lol.)

I have no idea what you mean when you say "why don't you want to use the Object Monitor". Would you please explain, Cyril.

Read my previous mail

@Macker said:

I have no idea what you mean when you say "why don't you want to use the Object Monitor". Would you please explain, Cyril.

Ah damn ... sorry, somehow I missed that 2nd post of yours.

And no, inserting a monitor object in the VSL 1x16 ports AU2 template made no difference that I can see.

I need to know what versions of Logic, VEPro, macOS and Mac computer you're using in your testing.

In my test on your AU2 monitor object idea I used Logic 10.7.2 and VEPro 7.0.1056 (local host) in macOS 11.6.3. I'm running a 2017 iMac 27", 4.2GHz i7 7700K, 64GB DDR4, Radeon Pro 580 8GB.

I have previously tried the Beta VEPro 7.0.1151 (several days before you mentioned your Monitor idea) but it made no difference so I uninstalled it and went back to 1056.

In the test I've just done on your idea I played back a few notes created by the MIDI region editor. I haven't run my usual full suite of tests for MIDI response. Finding that playing back editor-created notes is still problematic was all I needed to know in this particular case.

I'm not stuck. I have a fully operational AU3 template using Logic 10.4.8 and VEpro 7.0.1056 in High Sierra. For my normal everyday work I'm not looking to change this configuration in the forseeable future; however, for special purposes I can dual-boot between High Sierra and Big Sur.

@Macker said:

And no, inserting a monitor object in the VSL 1x16 ports AU2 template made no difference that I can see.

if you play one note, can you post a screen copy of the window of the Monitor Object

I will happily provide a screenshot after you've told me more about your setup, just to be sure we're both on the same page - or at least as near as doesn't matter.

Specifically, on which of your 2 computers, and with exactly what versions of Logic and macOS, did you make your observations regarding the insertion of a Monitor object? Also, have you tried playing back notes created by the MIDI Region Editor, when using your Monitor object idea; and if so, what was the result?

You are a nonsense !

Or do you have Alzheimer ?

Monitoring the trafic on  the VSL object is the solution to narrow down the problem

What is the relation with my setup, it's environnement programming !

It looks like you do not want to be help !

Too bad !

bye bye

@Macker said:

I will happily provide a screenshot after you've told me more about your setup, just to be sure we're both on the same page - or at least as near as doesn't matter.

Specifically, on which of your 2 computers, and with exactly what versions of Logic and macOS, did you make your observations regarding the insertion of a Monitor object? Also, have you tried playing back notes created by the MIDI Region Editor, when using your Monitor object idea; and if so, what was the result?

The Environnement is a sort of programming language using objects, no relation with computers, Logic version and VSL version

In the example you send me, If you have play one note, C4, you have a problem because the note is sent MANY times

Be sure to click on the the monitor window to empty it before playing the note 

@Macker said:

Fascinating, Cyril.

So the performance of Logic's Environment is completely independent of any design and build of Logic; any design and build of the host computer hardware; and any design and build of the host's operating system?

In other words, Logic's Environment is some sort of ... erm ... transcendental thing?

T

Thanks Cyril. I guess you've published a paper on the 'transcendental' nature of Logic's Environment? No idea how I missed it but hope to find it one day in one of the academic journals. I'm sure I'll enjoy reading it.

Meanwhile, as the saying goes:

   Keep calm, carry on and eat a cupcake.

Santé!

@Macker said:

Thanks Cyril. I guess you've published a paper on the transcendental nature of Logic's Environment? No idea how I missed it but hope to find it one day in one of the academic journals. I'm sure I'll enjoy reading it.

Meanwhile, as the saying goes:

   Keep calm, carry on and eat a cupcake.

Santé!

I can try to correct this problem, but you must send me your Logic Environnement 

I had this problem with my Environment and I fix it

Cyril, listen. I have not asked you to fix any problem for me; I merely invited you to add to a technical discussion. Yet you continually act in a grandiose, entitled, weird and rude way as if I'm some noob begging for a technical solution from you, while you evade the actual topic at hand. In case you can't see how you're behaving, I can tell you:- not like anyone I would choose to consult. If you believe you have a solution to Logic's problem I suggest you open a new thread and describe it there in full detail accompanied by hard evidence.

Our 'discussion' in this thread, if you hadn't already noticed, is finished. Be advised that any further "other-worldly", churlish or offensive posts from you in this thread may result in a serious complaint to the Forum Moderator.

[Moved]

I just notice you are completely incompetent on Logic Environnement

Do not ask for help you are making us loosing our time.

In the Monitor Window you send me it show you have a problem that will cause a lot of unnecessary traffic and that may cause hanging notes in VEP

I will not write the two words because I am polite

@Macker said:

Cyril, listen. I do not require any 'fixing' or any other kind of help from you. If you believe you have a solution to Logic's problem I suggest you open a new thread and describe it there in full detail accompanied by hard evidence.

Our 'discussion' in this thread, if you hadn't already noticed, is finished. Be advised that any further "other-worldly" or churlish posts from you in this thread may result in a serious complaint to the Forum Moderator.

CONCLUSION

1. For VEPro AUv2

It appears that Apple have radically altered something in new Logic that can have a seriously dysfunctional impact on user-added Environment processing, including any and all workarounds for multiport operation with VEPro AUv2. It's as though there is an errant infinite loop somewhere in Logic's latest code. When playing back a MIDI Region in which notes have been created by the Region Editor, an endless sequence of Note Off events follows each and every Note On, each of these spurious Note Offs being separated by the original Note's duration. This fault occurs whether or not a VEPro AUv2 client plugin is present in Logic.

For Region-playback note-handling, there has always been some sort of 'underground protocol' in Logic which manages note duration in coordination with any Environment processing that may be present. In certain circumstances this protocol leads to "what you see" in Monitor objects being radically different to "what you get" in terms of actual MIDI messages moving through the Environment. This underground coordination now appears to be broken, no matter what multiport workaround is used for VEPro AUv2, and no matter what tricks are added in the Environment in attempting to force the actions of the underground protocol into ideal functionality in the daylight.

My investigations suggest to me that it is futile to attempt to add yet more Environment processing in order to work around this new problem, in that there is no way users of the Environment can get 'upstream' of the problem. This means that processing-threads will continue to be burdened by this infinite repetition of Note Offs for every Note On encountered in the project. Adding more Environment processes to try to suppress this infinite repetition is like applying a band-aid to try to fix some underlying sepsis. The 'sepsis' in new Logic will continue to build up, especially in large and complex projects, and may eventually lead to Environment threads being abruptly aborted when object-process entry-count maximum is exceeded (there has always been a hard limit).

Unfortunately it does appear we shall have to wait to see whether future Logic updates fix the problem or leave the Environment to wither on the vine (maybe because Apple now want it that way?). 

2. For VEPro AUv3

I think it highly likely there is a different coding problem in Logic that has led to all notes hanging in half of VEPro's ports. For this problem I see no possibility of workarounds in the Environment; nor do I think it can be fixed in a VEPro upate. However, in this case I'm optimistic there'll be a future fix from Apple that will render full and very convenient multiport operation for VEPro AUv3.

Paul, I'll take a beta version for testing.

My VEP7 crashes daily. I'm not doing any live production at this time so now is good time to try.

karmand

@Paul said:

Hi everybody, 

You are right. And our development team managed to squeeze this in. 

I have sent our beta versions to your registered email addresses, please give those a spin, and we'll handle this via mail conversation. 

Best,
Paul

Hi everybody,

I am just a composer and musician and have not much computer knowledge. I do try things out on an instinctive base and sometimes that turns out well.

Now coming to VEPro AU3 and the newest Logic on a M1, I have nothing but problems. At first Au3 didn't even show up in the instrument pop-up list and after uninstall and reinstall, the AU2 didn't show up. Despite of the two plugins being validated in the plugin manager. I have a lot of big orchestra projects that worked fine before, but now I can't use them anymore. Changing everything would take too much time. If it was just one project, I would do that.

Then I got an idea. I set-up a second user account on the Mac and tried it out there. Miracle (I thought) I had the two plugins showing up and they seemed even to work. I went back to my main account and tried it again there. Logic blocked on the AU3, saying the developer needed to update the plugin, because it was causing problems to Logic. ( Not because I was running it on the other account off course )

So I have uninstalled everything, including Logic and building up from zero.

I now have the problem that VEPro is completely unusable to me, because Logic does not open anymore. It stays stuck on the AU3. The only solution that I see now (besides an update from Vienna or Apple) is to buy me an older Mac, but I'm afraid I have no money for that anymore after buying the Mac Studio.

Does anyone have an idea what else I could do?

Thanks for reading and hopefully a solution.

Have a great weekend.

Bob