@Macker said:

Cyril, many thanks for answering those tedious questions. Very kind of you.

Alas, I do hope you'll understand and forgive me when I say that I won't now be discussing this particular Logic problem any further here - unless of course there is some real news to report. The topic has now become too ... how can I put this ... 'contaminated'. And that's unfair on you also; I'd like to have discussed the problem with you. C'est la vie.

That said, it's easy for anyone to investigate this problem by setting some simple tests to provide the evidence.

I'm sorry I can't provide you with any Logic project files because my normal use of Logic involves a very large and complex subsystem that I've designed and built in Logic's Environment. Indeed I usually quickly set up special and mostly very simple tests in a clean and empty Logic project in order to investigate any problems with Logic itself, which was the case here. I'm afraid I've no tests saved to send you to save you the time. To give you some idea of my Environment subsystem I've attached a (deliberately blurred) shot of one part of an Environment layer; the whole subsystem occupies 16 new layers.

If you have touch VSL environnement YOU are ONLY responsible of your problem.

It's your problem to debug what you have add

Quite so, Cyril, and of course acting responsibly applies in both professional and amateur endeavours wherever there are consequences for other people. Furthermore, I'll mention the time-honoured virtues of honesty, integrity, respect and conscience, in this regard.

As a design engineer (retired), what I find alarming is to discover a predatory arriviste who seems to think the "fake it 'til you make it" approach is appropriate in technical endeavours! Anyone who appears to feel entitled not only to speak out grandiosely as if an authority on technical matters in which he is (often very obviously) not an expert, but also to smear the work, opinions and good standing of others who are far ahead of him in expertise, surely is behaving maladaptively, to say the least. One of the difficulties in addressing this arriviste-problem is that it has to be stopped through the interventions of others. Professionals in such matters all indicate that individuals with that type of personality disorder simply do not have the conscience to stop themselves - think of, for example, convicted fraudsters Elizabeth Holmes and Anna Delvey.

What I like and admire about this forum is the very high general standard of responsibility, honesty and integrity of enthusiasts, most of whom don't claim any professional technical standing. It grieves me to see an arriviste preying on these good folks.

UPDATE - Logic Pro 10.6.3 Alert.

I'm finding strange behaviour in the Environment of Logic 10.6.3 in Big Sur. It's hard to pin down and might perhaps be simply a graphics display anomaly. It's not present in either Logic 10.4.8 (High Sierra) or Logic 10.7.2 (Big Sur). Pending further investigation and testing, all I can say at the moment is that it might not be advisable to regard Logic 10.6.3 as entirely safe for any projects that include custom additions in the Environment. I'll post further findings on this problem when and if I can get a clearer understanding of it.

In Logic 10.4.8 (in both High Sierra and Big Sur) I've found the Environment to be stable and safe, with only one known bug that had to be avoided by my own extensive designs in the Environment - i.e. the Transformer's 14-bit arithmetic is broken. It so happens that this particular bug has been fixed by Apple in the latest Logic, even though, ironically, the Transformer now appears to be seriously broken in new ways when connected in a MIDI note path.

If you are using 1st version of VSL Environnement it is quite normal you are experimenting a lot of repeated instructions.

I have send to VSL a corrected version that did not do it

I am also a 70 year old and retired  ; my job was system programming on many computers !

I spend hundred of hours working with the Environnement since 2005

@Macker said:

Quite so, Cyril, and of course acting responsibly applies in both professional and amateur endeavours wherever there are consequences for other people. Furthermore, I'll mention the time-honoured virtues of honesty, integrity, respect and conscience, in this regard.

As a design engineer (retired), what I find alarming is to discover a predatory arriviste who seems to think the "fake it 'til you make it" approach is appropriate in technical endeavours! Anyone who appears to feel entitled not only to speak out grandiosely as if an authority on technical matters in which he is (often very obviously) not an expert, but also to smear the work, opinions and good standing of others who are far ahead of him in expertise, surely is behaving maladaptively, to say the least. One of the difficulties in addressing this problem is that it has to be stopped through the interventions of others; because as professionals in such matters all indicate, individuals with that type of personality disorder simply do not have the conscience to stop themselves. (Think of, for example, convicted fraudsters Elizabeth Holmes and Anna Delvey.)

What I like and admire about this forum is the very high general standard of responsibility, honesty and integrity of enthusiasts, most of whom don't claim any professional technical standing. It grieves me to see an arriviste preying on these good folks.

Place an object "Monitor" just before going to the VSL VE object !

clear the monitor window and play one note

you should get a very few CTRL and your note 

@Macker said:

UPDATE - Logic Pro 10.6.3 Alert.

I'm finding strange behaviour in the Environment of Logic 10.6.3 in Big Sur. It's hard to pin down and might perhaps be simply a graphics display anomaly. It's not present in either Logic 10.4.8 (High Sierra) or Logic 10.7.2 (Big Sur). Pending further investigation and testing, all I can say at the moment is that it might not be advisable to regard Logic 10.6.3 as entirely safe for any projects that include custom additions in the Environment. I'll post further findings on this problem when and if I can get a clearer understanding of it.

In Logic 10.4.8 (in both High Sierra and Big Sur) I've found the Environment to be stable and safe, with only one known bug that had to be avoided by my own extensive designs in the Environment - i.e. the Transformer's 14-bit arithmetic is broken. It so happens that this particular bug has been fixed by Apple in the latest Logic, even though, ironically, the Transformer now appears to be seriously broken in new ways when connected in a MIDI note path.

Cyril, I'm glad to meet another retired professional engaged in the joy and challenges of digital music-making! I was formerly a weapon systems designer.

Logic's Environment has been my main place of work in my private passion of music-making ever since I first met it 21 years ago in Logic Audio Platinum 3.5.

Perhaps I didn't clearly explain my own current situation with Logic. I have no problems working in High Sierra with VEPro AU3 7.0.1056 and Logic 10.4.8, using my AU3 multiport template. I shall continue with this configuration for as long as possible, hoping that Apple will eventually fix the new problems in Logic 10.7. But I also have a Big Sur boot volume in which I keep an eye on the state of affairs with later Logic and VEPro versions (though of course I won't know about Apple M1 operation until I buy M1 hardware).

I'm sure other Logic users who don't have the convenience of working with an older Logic in an older macOS may want to know about your VEPro AU2 multiport workaround, Cyril. Perhaps you will post something about it here? (Toutefois, Je suis certainement d'accord pour dire que la perspective d'une arriviste déclenché, jetant sa merde tout atour en conséquence, est désagréable pour vous et moi. Lol.)

Why don't you want to use the Object Monitor !

May be there is a change in the AudioMidi

@Macker said:

Cyril, I'm glad to meet another retired professional engaged in the joy and challenges of digital music-making! I was formerly a weapon systems designer.

I started getting seriously busy with digital sampling techniques for orchestral music production in 2001, using a 400 MHz iMac with Logic Audio Platinum v3.5, Reason v1, and Peter Siedlaczek's Advanced Orchestra samples. I immediately recognized Logic's Environment to be a wonderful facility in which to develop a concept I'd worked on theoretically back in the '70s - i.e., replacing Equal Temperament with authentic orchestral intonation. Way back then I had designed a mutliple-derivative divider to produce the set of tones I needed (using very high speed Motorola 2900 ECL chips), with the intention of synthesizing orchestral instrument sounds. Well I soon realised it was extremely difficult to synthesize authentic-sounding orchestral instruments, and was glad to see that the digital-sampling technique was far superior for orchestral music production. But then I became very busy with the stimulating challenges of high-end military work, and my ideas for music production lay dormant for years.

So anyway, Logic's Environment has been my main place of work ever since I first met it 21 years ago.

 

Perhaps I didn't clearly explain my own current situation with Logic. I have no problems working in High Sierra with VEPro AU3 7.0.1056 and Logic 10.4.8, using my AU3 multiport template. I shall continue with this configuration for as long as possible, hoping that Apple will eventually fix the new problems in Logic 10.7. But I also have a Big Sur boot volume in which I keep an eye on the state of affairs with later Logic and VEPro versions (though of course I won't know about Apple M1 operation until I buy M1 hardware).

I'm sure other Logic users who don't have the convenience of working with an older Logic in an older macOS may want to know about your VEPro AU2 multiport workaround, Cyril. Perhaps you will post something about it here? (Toutefois, Je suis certainement d'accord pour dire que la perspective d'une arriviste déclenché, jetant sa merde tout atour en conséquence, est désagréable pour vous et moi. Lol.)

I have no idea what you mean when you say "why don't you want to use the Object Monitor". Would you please explain, Cyril.

Read my previous mail

@Macker said:

I have no idea what you mean when you say "why don't you want to use the Object Monitor". Would you please explain, Cyril.

Ah damn ... sorry, somehow I missed that 2nd post of yours.

And no, inserting a monitor object in the VSL 1x16 ports AU2 template made no difference that I can see.

I need to know what versions of Logic, VEPro, macOS and Mac computer you're using in your testing.

In my test on your AU2 monitor object idea I used Logic 10.7.2 and VEPro 7.0.1056 (local host) in macOS 11.6.3. I'm running a 2017 iMac 27", 4.2GHz i7 7700K, 64GB DDR4, Radeon Pro 580 8GB.

I have previously tried the Beta VEPro 7.0.1151 (several days before you mentioned your Monitor idea) but it made no difference so I uninstalled it and went back to 1056.

In the test I've just done on your idea I played back a few notes created by the MIDI region editor. I haven't run my usual full suite of tests for MIDI response. Finding that playing back editor-created notes is still problematic was all I needed to know in this particular case.

I'm not stuck. I have a fully operational AU3 template using Logic 10.4.8 and VEpro 7.0.1056 in High Sierra. For my normal everyday work I'm not looking to change this configuration in the forseeable future; however, for special purposes I can dual-boot between High Sierra and Big Sur.

@Macker said:

And no, inserting a monitor object in the VSL 1x16 ports AU2 template made no difference that I can see.

if you play one note, can you post a screen copy of the window of the Monitor Object

I will happily provide a screenshot after you've told me more about your setup, just to be sure we're both on the same page - or at least as near as doesn't matter.

Specifically, on which of your 2 computers, and with exactly what versions of Logic and macOS, did you make your observations regarding the insertion of a Monitor object? Also, have you tried playing back notes created by the MIDI Region Editor, when using your Monitor object idea; and if so, what was the result?

You are a nonsense !

Or do you have Alzheimer ?

Monitoring the trafic on  the VSL object is the solution to narrow down the problem

What is the relation with my setup, it's environnement programming !

It looks like you do not want to be help !

Too bad !

bye bye

@Macker said:

I will happily provide a screenshot after you've told me more about your setup, just to be sure we're both on the same page - or at least as near as doesn't matter.

Specifically, on which of your 2 computers, and with exactly what versions of Logic and macOS, did you make your observations regarding the insertion of a Monitor object? Also, have you tried playing back notes created by the MIDI Region Editor, when using your Monitor object idea; and if so, what was the result?

The Environnement is a sort of programming language using objects, no relation with computers, Logic version and VSL version

In the example you send me, If you have play one note, C4, you have a problem because the note is sent MANY times

Be sure to click on the the monitor window to empty it before playing the note 

@Macker said:

Fascinating, Cyril.

So the performance of Logic's Environment is completely independent of any design and build of Logic; any design and build of the host computer hardware; and any design and build of the host's operating system?

In other words, Logic's Environment is some sort of ... erm ... transcendental thing?

T

Thanks Cyril. I guess you've published a paper on the 'transcendental' nature of Logic's Environment? No idea how I missed it but hope to find it one day in one of the academic journals. I'm sure I'll enjoy reading it.

Meanwhile, as the saying goes:

   Keep calm, carry on and eat a cupcake.

Santé!

@Macker said:

Thanks Cyril. I guess you've published a paper on the transcendental nature of Logic's Environment? No idea how I missed it but hope to find it one day in one of the academic journals. I'm sure I'll enjoy reading it.

Meanwhile, as the saying goes:

   Keep calm, carry on and eat a cupcake.

Santé!

I can try to correct this problem, but you must send me your Logic Environnement 

I had this problem with my Environment and I fix it

Cyril, listen. I have not asked you to fix any problem for me; I merely invited you to add to a technical discussion. Yet you continually act in a grandiose, entitled, weird and rude way as if I'm some noob begging for a technical solution from you, while you evade the actual topic at hand. In case you can't see how you're behaving, I can tell you:- not like anyone I would choose to consult. If you believe you have a solution to Logic's problem I suggest you open a new thread and describe it there in full detail accompanied by hard evidence.

Our 'discussion' in this thread, if you hadn't already noticed, is finished. Be advised that any further "other-worldly", churlish or offensive posts from you in this thread may result in a serious complaint to the Forum Moderator.

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