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  • Annoying high partials piano

    Hi everyone,

    I have a hard time 'liking' (understatement) moreover audibly reducing high partials on the piano (while playing and recording).

    No matter what I try with altered settings (in the worst case also with eq or optical compressor), there's always this annoying short and high frequent curving wave before the relevant note/tone continues to sustain a/o decay. Sometimes it even cuts through a mix with a recorded vocal. It's very unpleasent to the human ear (my hearing, clean recording chain and monitors is/are o.k.).

    I do not only experience this with the VSL-Bosendorfer, but also with the Grands of Synthogy (Ivory II) and the default piano's in other software.

    I did some extended research on the 'natural' behaviour of sampled pianostrings and start fearing this could/would be an unavoidable characteristic, though possibly also depending on microphone placement during the original sample recordings.

    Does anybody else recognize this, and - more important - would there be a solution for this?

    All the best,

    Ton


  • Could you post an example?


  • See next post...


  • By all means: 


  • Hi Ton,

    Some things I do when working with piano (I mostly use 2 mic-positions):

    1. add MIDI-compressor for the note-velocity
    2. add some EQ and cut frequencies I do not like / change characteristic of the piano
    (3. mix the two mic-positions in a group channel)
    4. add a little compression
    5. add good IR reverb (in my case MIR; experiment and try different positions / settings)
    6. add EQ (mostly to remove just a little the low-frequencies from the sides of the stereo field
    [7. mix everything and master]

    Best, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Hi, 

    Good input there, Ben. 

    That seems to be the "mini-piano" from the Special Editions, is that correct?

    Best,
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Hi Paul,

    I use the 'Bösendorfer Imperial'. Because there are not so many velocity layers compared to the Vienna Imperial, MIDI-velocity compression makes the piano sound better.

    Best, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Thanks for your input, Ben and Paul.

    Ben: eq-, compression-, reverb- and master-wise I already do that, off course.

    Paul: this is indeed the 'mini'.

    But if you read my initial post, you can see my question specifically is a more acoustic-technical one - i.e. about this split-second warble after a string has been hammered (non-damped) and before the actual note/tone carries on (you have to listen quite attentively to discern the frequency). I also hear this phenomenon in a number of other (non VSL) libraries, so it could be a 'normal' charachteristic of string-behaviour. Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

    Related question: would the Vienna Imperial also display this sonically? I cannot clearly distinguish this from online demo's.

    All the best,

    Ton


  • Hi Ton, 

    In my experience, this is natural behaviour and characteristic to the instrument. You will also hear it in the Vienna Imperial. 

    Of course the microphone choice and placement always plays a role as well. 

    So I guess the question is: Which library does NOT contain this?

    Best,
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    Hi Paul,

    I'm afraid you are right about this characteristic... And probably I'm too prone to this effect, as my hearing is more than average (both a blessing and a curse, so to speak 😉).

    You rightfully state 'Which library does NOT contain this?'. However, there are a few libraries in which one virtually can alter microphones and a number of positions to taste. Sometimes this indeed makes a difference.

    Would VSL also opt this feauture in some future upgrade (f.i. the upcoming Yamaha)? Perhaps more users would welcome this, as the quality of the VSL-piano's remains outstanding.

    All the best,

    Ton


  • Hello Ton, 

    Yes, the upcoming Synchron Yamaha CFX offers multiple mics to choose from, like all Synchron Series products. 

    Best, 
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Hi Paul,

    so one month to go for the Yamaha... Well worth the waiting, as his grand could slightly differ in high frequent after touch harmonics in the high(er) register.

    Synchron miking: more microphone positions to choose from, but also adjustable in position (f.i. individually moving 2 or 3 close mic's at random)?

    All the best,

    Ton


  • Hi Ton, 

    We will send out more information as soon as possible!

    Best, 
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    You definitely know, Paul, how to keep people interested...😉