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  4. Annoying high partials piano

  • Annoying high partials piano

    T
    T

    Hi everyone,

    I have a hard time 'liking' (understatement) moreover audibly reducing high partials on the piano (while playing and recording).

    No matter what I try with altered settings (in the worst case also with eq or optical compressor), there's always this annoying short and high frequent curving wave before the relevant note/tone continues to sustain a/o decay. Sometimes it even cuts through a mix with a recorded vocal. It's very unpleasent to the human ear (my hearing, clean recording chain and monitors is/are o.k.).

    I do not only experience this with the VSL-Bosendorfer, but also with the Grands of Synthogy (Ivory II) and the default piano's in other software.

    I did some extended research on the 'natural' behaviour of sampled pianostrings and start fearing this could/would be an unavoidable characteristic, though possibly also depending on microphone placement during the original sample recordings.

    Does anybody else recognize this, and - more important - would there be a solution for this?

    All the best,

    Ton
  • T
    T

    Could you post an example?
  • T
    T

    See next post...
  • T
    T

    By all means: 
  • bbeliusB
    bbeliusB

    Hi Ton,

    Some things I do when working with piano (I mostly use 2 mic-positions):

    1. add MIDI-compressor for the note-velocity
    2. add some EQ and cut frequencies I do not like / change characteristic of the piano
    (3. mix the two mic-positions in a group channel)
    4. add a little compression
    5. add good IR reverb (in my case MIR; experiment and try different positions / settings)
    6. add EQ (mostly to remove just a little the low-frequencies from the sides of the stereo field
    [7. mix everything and master]

    Best, Ben

    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi, 

    Good input there, Ben. 

    That seems to be the "mini-piano" from the Special Editions, is that correct?

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • bbeliusB
    bbeliusB

    Hi Paul,

    I use the 'Bösendorfer Imperial'. Because there are not so many velocity layers compared to the Vienna Imperial, MIDI-velocity compression makes the piano sound better.

    Best, Ben

    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • T
    T

    Thanks for your input, Ben and Paul.

    Ben: eq-, compression-, reverb- and master-wise I already do that, off course.

    Paul: this is indeed the 'mini'.

    But if you read my initial post, you can see my question specifically is a more acoustic-technical one - i.e. about this split-second warble after a string has been hammered (non-damped) and before the actual note/tone carries on (you have to listen quite attentively to discern the frequency). I also hear this phenomenon in a number of other (non VSL) libraries, so it could be a 'normal' charachteristic of string-behaviour. Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

    Related question: would the Vienna Imperial also display this sonically? I cannot clearly distinguish this from online demo's.

    All the best,

    Ton
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi Ton, 

    In my experience, this is natural behaviour and characteristic to the instrument. You will also hear it in the Vienna Imperial. 

    Of course the microphone choice and placement always plays a role as well. 

    So I guess the question is: Which library does NOT contain this?

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Paul,

    I'm afraid you are right about this characteristic... And probably I'm too prone to this effect, as my hearing is more than average (both a blessing and a curse, so to speak 😉).

    You rightfully state 'Which library does NOT contain this?'. However, there are a few libraries in which one virtually can alter microphones and a number of positions to taste. Sometimes this indeed makes a difference.

    Would VSL also opt this feauture in some future upgrade (f.i. the upcoming Yamaha)? Perhaps more users would welcome this, as the quality of the VSL-piano's remains outstanding.

    All the best,

    Ton
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hello Ton, 

    Yes, the upcoming Synchron Yamaha CFX offers multiple mics to choose from, like all Synchron Series products. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • T
    T

    Hi Paul,

    so one month to go for the Yamaha... Well worth the waiting, as his grand could slightly differ in high frequent after touch harmonics in the high(er) register.

    Synchron miking: more microphone positions to choose from, but also adjustable in position (f.i. individually moving 2 or 3 close mic's at random)?

    All the best,

    Ton
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi Ton, 

    We will send out more information as soon as possible!

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited

    You definitely know, Paul, how to keep people interested...😉