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Yes, it's total bullshit. I respect the need to prevent piracy, however if the situation is as serious as "lose this tiny piece of plastic, and you lose your ability to use this multi-thousand dollar product forever" there should be a better system. Period.
As much as I love the VSL sounds, I'm already very nervous about how much money I've sunk in that tiny piece of plastic, and I'm reluctant to spend another dollar at this point. That's not how it should be.
Figure it out, VSL.
Maybe they could take a look how UAD handles the piracy issue.
Their PCI/Firewire/Thunderbolt "dongle" has real DSP functionality, and without it you cannot run the software, because it requires the physical hardware for code execution.
To my information they are one of the few companies which donĀ“t have been hacked and business is doing well.
That said, a small device offering some extra memory for samples, a DSP for some convolution reverb or hard wired MIR code, whatever, without which the user cannot play the samples at all, may be a solution.
Even simpler : If the fear is that pirates may hack into user accounts and ask for a new faked license - why not ship the physical DVD/key boxes with a secret password on paper in it, which canĀ“t be found online in a database.
If a legal customer then asks for a backup due to a broken/stolen key, he has to phone VSL and tell them the secret phrase.
Even simpler : If the fear is that pirates may hack into user accounts and ask for a new faked license - why not ship the physical DVD/key boxes with a secret password on paper in it, which canĀ“t be found online in a database.
If a legal customer then asks for a backup due to a broken/stolen key, he has to phone VSL and tell them the secret phrase.
I don't know about other users but the last several products I've bought from VSL have been downloaded. No Boxes. No keys. Not sure how this would work especially if I'm calling VSL from the Arizona, USA.
Kleinholgi,
Im not trying to start an argument with you it's just that this is a complicated issue that has haunted the forum for a long time. It's one of those things where you look at it and say, "oh well why don't they just do this or that and there you go problem solved." Unfortunately, it's not that easy.
Yes, it would be another dongle, but it would not only perform as a pure copy protection.
The difference is, that in case your UAD PCI card burns down after guarantee, it is stolen or got some water damage etc., it is of course the users problem and he has to buy another PCI card ( a Solo core currently is ~$299), but the plug ins ( possibly worth also thousands of $) are still in the user account and can be transfered to a new card /plug in group.
The drawback of it of course is, that the entrance barrier is higher for entry level users, who donĀ“t want to spend a few $100 just to be able to get going. But if thereĀ“s real functionality in the "dongle", why not (instead of e.g. buying a SSD for $200 or a CPU upgrade).
But apart from that I also cannot understand, why VSL has that kind of hardcore policy regarding the USB stick. I donĀ“t think it is the usual way companies deal with that problem. Most of them that I know are more user friendly in that point - even those which have much much less advanced copy protection, like simple serial numbers etc (Voxengo, D16, Soniccouture, audiorealism etc.etc.).
Regarding the non-physical download scheme youĀ“re right. That might be problematic. On the other hand, if users here ask for the cost of insurance, why not offering the physical box / recall code on demand for the fee of the shipping costs or so. Fedex could then drop you the christmas insurance kit right on your door, a few days after you downloaded the files.
In the end I also donĀ“t know if we are talking about highly unlikely incidents. I would be very interested to know about the typical failure rate of these Elicense USB sticks after say 7 years in the field
Of course stolen keys would still be a problem, but nothing in life is risk free.
O.K, just read some old postings on this topic.
As it is, the best advice seems to be to:
1.) Buy a new Vienna Key every few years
2.) Concentrate on buying bigger collections, not single instruments, because in the case of a faulty (not stolen) key out of guarantee they might charge a service fee for recalling for each license.
3.) Relax, because there are user reports, describing VSL as handling these situations with care and looking into it individually with a good solution for both parties.
sounds at least better, even for a Mac-user who has to get a sonnet.So if - like me- somebody has already many licenses over the years purchased, the danger of losing a few thousand euro is quite higher than paying an insurance or different hardware.
I remember when Logic still had a dongle, but in the end they realized to earn much more if they take the risk of being cracked, as this is also a kind of advertising to professionels.I too, got so to buy logic after trying it instead of protools or cubase, and vsl is more flexible than holywood strings&Co.Its like an car insurance calculates money spend in lost trials or money spend in a recall.Earning money is about calculating.The soundengineers of vsl are amazing, the programmer too, and over all the musicians behing the samples and the performance samples.The accountents are surely since generations from austria.
But, as the key is the physical prove of the software, though its plastic, its worth a lot - money is also paper, so like a jewel it should be possible to insure it instead to pay an emulator.
@liquidvienna said:
This is the very reason I won't spend a lot on vienna software. I own about 500 american dollars worth and thats it. The system isn't user friendly at all, I bought the essential package and because the stupid server is down i can't use it? can you imagine buying a car or a guitar and taking it home and saying yeah its useless because the server is down. If I lose my car keys they don't come take the car away and say its not yours. You pay a small fee for the new key. There has to be a better way or an insurance option. like say hmmmm iLOK.. 30 bucks and you get zero down time.
IĀ“m not happy with the Vienna Key situation as well.
But as I said in my earlier posting: Just relax.
The dongle situation is one thing - server problems are something different.
IĀ“m 100% sure, that these poblems can be solved. IĀ“m absolutely sure that you will be able to use your libraries. If it doesnĀ“t work, mail or phone the customer support and they will help you out. Their Customer support is excellent, that infornation is everywhere here in the forum.
Back to the Key situation : Just search some older postings on that topic and read some comments of Vienna officials. Between the lines you can guess, that usually they are also very friendly when it comes to the worst case scenario we are talking about here, especially malfunctioning keys.
Stolen keys is a different thing - I also have no solution for that.
As long as you have a key - just change it every 2 years and everything shall be A - O.K. [;)]
People before us took much greater risks, so donĀ“t worry too much....
Yeah, I think I got me a stick.
Back to the first question I didn't find an insurance for my software especially no one believed my when I told the problem.If there is a fire or break in or whatever, everything will be replaced except vienna.
A like the VSL sound very much and the strings are quite more flexible than in Holywood-strings (but the preset pattern is a big push on the workflow in film-music), but I think you're right not to buy vienna, as long as the problem isn't solved.Cracks only bring problems to sell the music afterwords, and as every project has countless often to be rewritten (or reprogrammed), its gambling with your income, to buy further vsl.
I like the product better though but the relation between risk and advantage is not justifyable if there's the risk to have no income at all after a flood disaster you key swam away.
So I have to search for an replacement for the rest of percussion, chamberstrings or dimension strings and especially choir until vsl has agreed to look fotr a solution.Can anybody recomend a program that works with logic 10 under Maverick ?I'm looking for something like the dimension-strings and -brass, the MIR and choir as well as special wood outside the 2-2-2-2, percussion, vienna imperial, and harp.
As I wrote in a posting before:
1. Check older forum postings for advice on how to be somewhat safeguarded against at least technical failure by refurbishing your Vienna Key every 2 years.
2. Many people, including me , are not 100% happy with the situation, but what can you do ? If you like the Vienna system, you have to bite the bullet. If you find other libraries or VSTs without, or more user friendly copy protection, fine - go for it. My feeling is, that thereĀ“s no competition for strings and other classical instruments. For percussion and more exotic instruments, there is, as well as dynamics or EQ plugins. Just make an elaborated guess or use google.
3. The copyprotection system used is not ilok, but Sychrosoft/Elicenser/Vienna Key - although I admit, that the problems bound to it are comparable. However, I never had a problem with it and IĀ“m using it for years now , VSL as well as Steinberg.
4. If you are an absolute power user, having invested 1000s of $, consider splitting the library up into pieces on several Vienna Keys. It doesnĀ“t solve the problem, but reduces the risk. Or renew it every 2 years as said before.
5. Opinions regarding insurance policies are widely spread apart. IMO, if youĀ“re software is stealed in your home or professional studio and you have let the insurance company known of the value beforehand, there should be a good chance that it works out, But consult your local agent on that topic, because regulations might vary from country to country.
6. DonĀ“ t travel with the Vienna stick and donĀ“t let it get out of your hand, because that might be the most troublesome situation.
7. Relax, because we might be
a) discussing things of very low probability.
b) underestimating the real life handling of VSL in case of knocked out license keys
c) overestimating the importance of an eventual situation like a broken or stolen license key.
Do you think that it would be really a big problem if your USB stick is defective ?
Think about that :
http://www.britannica.com/dday
These people had problems.
We donĀ“t have.
Greets
kh
Why do I keep on reading Insurance '?': afaik There is no insurance possible
Whatever you believe, insurance companies do not know how to insure data very well. Both commercial, domestical and yes again commercial and yes again informed.
Can I insure this 'instrument' (or can i really insure software)?
@MWE said:
insurance companies do not know how to insure data very well
not sure whom you've asked ... but almost every bigger insurance company has such packages.
i don't want to advertise here for a specific company, but in most cases it is a 3-level package:
a) insure hardware (failure, fire, theft, somtimes even human error)
b) insure software (dongles up to ā¬ 10.000 often includable)
c) insure data (negligence not covered, i.e. you have to make externally stored backups and such)
watch out for *enhanced electronic insurance* or a similar term.
hth, cm
As always, in order to protect our discussion, all is posted somewhere else.
Every buisness has a very simple goal. To make profit, wich also insure employment, social security for the workers, as their workspace rests necessary to insure the companies profit etc.
As long as items have to be payed, there is an reciprocal influence of power of the customer and the customers customer on the company.Less buyers, less profit.
Let's say you want to use vsl for your work, e.g. programm your music for a soundtrack to a film (in my case, there is usually per film only one person, who has to compose, arrange, and deliver the soundfile ready to direrctely mix under the film).
As I sell the recording using the samples obtained (setting them together according to my score, to compose the salmples following my intelecctual property - the score) ,I have to insure my client the possibility to use the recording once sold without juristic complications (otherwise I don't have customers very soon.
So the economic laws of the europeen governmets (and the law about electronical comerce is agreed by all of the EU-members)
force my to use only marchandise leagally obtained, which means in France, I have to be able to prove my purchase has been leagally obtained, and that bought them being allowed to use the samples.
Until there everything between law and vsl restrictions is congruent.
Also it is allowed to have functionable copies per customer in order to insure the purchased right to be able to use the product (like buying one book on kindle shop, and having it on your hardrive, that it is at least on one computer available).Until there the vsl politic is more than covered, as you can even download the samples on the internet (if e.g. your harddrive got grilled or you have a new computer and don'y use the old one)
This is almost covered by vsl, as you can store the samples on two or more backup hardrives.
Of course a client has from his part toprovide the necessary hardware, what is insured as we need to have a computer and to buy a vienna key.
This is covered by vsl.
In case a third party (even if it is a fire etc.) it should be possible to maintain the usabitlity of the product e.g. you obtained cable (tv), and after a burglary you will be able to use the non-material item (receiving the tv show) after you reinstalled a new tv, cable connection etc., as the samples are non-material (you can download them, like an electronical purchase of an application)Because of that reason vsl checks the fuctionalityof their software, reducing bus etc..
Re-obtaining of the non-material software is insured by vsl.The possibility to use them, assumed you provided the hardware to use the software (have a new computer and a new dongle)
This is not insured by vsl.
E.g. if a price for a tomato is set, you should be able to eat it, provided you can eat tomatoes - if you purchased a tomato and become afterwords allergic to tomatoes there is no warranty of the store wich sold the tomato.If in 1% of cans of soup will be found finger nails (wich are not toxic), the value of the can hase to be insured, a recall of the suspectable products is required.
To insure a faire marked, the people in countries with constitution and laws demanded from the EU members is insured in exchange of the taxes the state has a right to take.
Apparentely the austrian government is not interested to have an effect of this company. So legally everybody in austria can demand a national lawsue, and if denied apply the complaint to the european court.
The juristic solution costs a lot of money for lawers in outfront,effort, and there's always a risque to loose, even if it appears to be not likely.
So if you having a legal cost insurance that covers this action is your software insurance.Quite unpleasent for clients of vsl and vsl, but in those cases the usaly policy of every company is an assesment of risk and gain.And it still pays.
The only way to insure your rights is to motivate the company to change the policy, meaning it must be in their interest.Of cause the CEO can also agree to sell everything in case a problem occures in order to secure his wealth.
That are the golden parachutes expressed in a cancellation clause, often provided to the management.
But let's say the owner of vsl, doesn't want to give up his buisness, and he wants to insure the profit.Ironically the second possibility to obtain in the future a solution, that garanties your purchase to stay useable is to boycott as long your favorite product.
This is without any risk even in the slightest, as it would be in a lawsuit, doesn't require advancement of money for any legal action, and the vsl will be motivated to find a solution.
As for the customer, the producer has always the risk of abuse by his clients.People steal in supermarkets fruits.You could pu a camera everywhere, get armed security and bodycheck every leaving customer, except if the honest customer stops buying, as a part of every product is the presentation (why do you think the web-store of almost every company is rarely in txt., though it means extra investment?)
VSL fans like me have to make sure, that if they stop buying it becomes clear to the company why.I stop now, if the risk of loosing my key is to high, as I could loose a whole, even several projects when a flood of the seine is higher than loosing the key.Or even much higher as you have to work and travel with your key - pickpockets simply steal the whole bag, including things that are totally worthless to them like a lucky pen or a foto of your dog or a vienna key.
If the assesment is, the risk to loose your dongle is higher than the difference of the money you could earn with vsl samples and programms instead of east-west or hollywod strings or whatever, than all the love in the world to vsl doen't help.
You have to boycott until your risk is lower, to loose profit. But as there is always a risk for you and vsl, every part has to accept and aprise risk and profit.VSL has to share more risk between company and customer, if the customer does only not buy, because the risk is to high.
This is called market, you can influence producing ethics by not buying products manufactured by childwork, if neither quality nor price have an influence on your behavior what you buy.
It is also quite clear that buying products manufactured by slaves isreinforcement of that policy.Even buying is an ethic act.
I suppose I tend to buy a worse choir than vsl in order to not reinforce the actual licene-policy any further, and let me be clear: I will buy only the products if there is a different license policy, that makes my risk more reasonable, as it is today, even buy similar products that sound less good and the quality of my music will improve companies, where the mix of customer service (in this case company policy), price an quality are together better than in vsl.So the price is in worst case 150% of the indicated price in vsl, that means a traveling composer has the risk to pay 1515 Euros instead of 1030 Euros for the Apasionata bundle.So are you willing to pay 1515 Euros for those samples or won't you earn garantueed 515 Euros more with vsl instead of kontakt etc.
Are you willing to support vsl despite of treating their customers more as potentiel pirate-copy producing threat than as lucrative customers?
I know I would have used the january offer, but I invest in not-investing in vsl, to insure my purchased items.It is pragmaticaly seen the most logic action, as even vienna doesn't have a "vienna-care-plan" like apple, wich is mainly an insurance option by the company sold extra for their products (one of thousands ideas, vsl could even ask the own customers about a better solution and pick one, without paying anything)
If you really like the quality of vsl, and you don't want to be always worried to get srcewed by fate, than you have to boycott vsl at the moment, to get a possibility to use all of your purchases in the future.
A perverted policy forces an inversed behavior of vsl-fans.
Its like a beautifull woman, that doesn't wash one leg for years - inspite you like the beauty, even character, it stinks so much that you can't enjoy being with this person.She doen't have to change her outfit, no facelift, more sports, more use of intelligence, she has to wash her leg.She will only do it, if she looses al friends and knows its the dirt on the leg.Otherwise she changes everything despite that leg, meaning having a husband who likes to feel his own urin in his trousers, and friends, that never brusheir teeth or worse, they like the stinking leg so much, that they become friend despite the personality.You can imagin how this person will evolve.Let's hope she's not too stupid....
I really asked for an insurance company, and believe me I was looking.
Of cours you don't advertise for any company with this offer BECAUSE THERE IS NONE
I'm more than sure that you can't tell any name.See even hp refers to sellers of generic refills for laser printer, because they can even tell several and are willing to publish the name of trusted firms.
On the apple store you can find several hardware and software (e.g. Lacie, Belkin etc.), because advertising partners isn't forbitten.There are even publicities on TV that are not selling the chanels products, or they're showing movies, not produced by the channel.Even in Austria.
AS NOBODY CAN TELL ONLY ONE COMPANY AND ALL COMPANIES I CALLED DON'T INSURE A LICENCE ON A VIENNA KEY
IT SEEMS TO BE PRETTY CLEAR
I T I S I M P O S S I B L E O N P L A N E T E A R T H TO I N S U R E V I E N N A S O F T W A R E
I suppose you had to write this post because in order to maintain your work in Vienna - or you speculate in dellusional hope (denial is the first state) - or you lie
I didn't find any insurance. should I advertise on twitter let's say 150 companies who cannot insure you as vsl customer?
I can.Trust me, I can even post the letters.
And to insure this discusion and hold it in the open, it is as always published in the web
on the website of allianz (wich is a german insurance)
A: Yes. As long as your permanent residence is the UK, we can cover you anywhere in the world.
So, living in France (wich is with the euro more attached to europe - ok but the uk includes canada and australia) no insurance
vut it's good to hear, that at least english customers can buy vsl.but not if you are from
france/germany/italy/spain/poland/suisse/usa/poland/slovakia or any other country alphabetical between Argentina and Zimbabwe.
But the only way to be sure to enjoy vsl is (until vsl refers as examples to several insurances, or offers a own one) not to buy more vsl products, though it is the most amazing virtual orchestra/choi/piano etc. :(
