Guy, I love your demos pretty much. Your Demo's are pretty great. These Dimension Cellos are not the greatest, but I know you can do better and improve, afterall, that is what being an artist is.
Cheers,
Ricardo Castro
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I have to agree. This makes me not want to buy dimension strings. Special edition sounds better, in my opinion. Not sure if it's the instrument samples themselves or the mix, though...
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Muziksculp provided some of his qualitative description of what he dislikes about the sound which somehow I guess tries to describe his perception. I think it'd be useful to ask the last two posters for what aspects of the sound they find "sounding bad". In all fairness and with all due respect, you'd be better off elevating the conversational level around such comment as otherwise some people, yours truly included, would tend to dismiss your comments rather easily for finding them trivially unfounded.
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Guy is being made to produce a totally perfect sound with absolutely new instruments which have completely different acoustic characteristics on a regular basis, and it is stupid to attack these demos this way. I didn't even hear any problem since I liked the music so much. Maybe they need some EQ? So what? That is normal for new sounds. So you say "I'm not buying this library" blah-blah - what a bunch of crap.
The Dimension strings are the best thing that has yet been created for string samples, and to trash them here is disgusting to me.
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I don't believe anyone is trashing them at all. A more accurate statement might be to say that with the bar of expectation set so high, some listeneres (like me) experienced a slight sense of disappointment that the cello sound in these demos (and certainly not Guy's obviously exceptional writing) didn't quite send shivers down their spine like the violin demo's did. A small thing, let's keep it in perspective.
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@William said:
Guy is being made to produce a totally perfect sound with absolutely new instruments which have completely different acoustic characteristics on a regular basis, and it is stupid to attack these demos this way. I didn't even hear any problem since I liked the music so much. Maybe they need some EQ? So what? That is normal for new sounds. So you say "I'm not buying this library" blah-blah - what a bunch of crap.
The Dimension strings are the best thing that has yet been created for string samples, and to trash them here is disgusting to me.
My understanding is that Guy's demos are sponsored by VSL as a way to entice people like me to buy them. These particular demos sound thin and brittle and do not appeal to my ears at all, especially compared to previous products. Guy is a fine VSLman, so that makes me immediately suspect the samples. Or it could be that there are a lot of high notes for the cello, which aren't too enjoyable at the best of times. Or maybe, as you imply, it's that Guy is "being made to produce" demos with instruments he's not familiar with in a rushed way, which if true would be a silly approach to promotion. Whatever the reason -- why would anyone spend $1000 unless the demos blow them away? Listening to demos is literally the only way of evaluating libraries short of putting up a large sum of cash. So, no sale here. Not yet. Not even if a guy on the internet called William says it's "the best thing."
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So I listened to them again. They are covered in reverb for a start. That's not a great way to go for me. That's just me though. They sound nasal. They are not sounding good exposed. Maybe they will sound different when they play in unison or whatever with the rest of the strings. I don't know.
They sound compressed as if they've been pushed together from either end. Not good. This is how they sound to ME.
Reference - Quested 2108 monitors and an Apogee Ensemble. Also through HD600s.
If that isn't a good enough reference then it's obviously my fucking ears that sound wrong. I don't want to look at my emails and find yet another post that disagrees with what I'm hearing. Rather, I would prefer to read what individuals think all on their own. Without any help.
That's my last word on it and Good Morning.
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@William said:
Guy is being made to produce a totally perfect sound with absolutely new instruments which have completely different acoustic characteristics on a regular basis, and it is stupid to attack these demos this way. I didn't even hear any problem since I liked the music so much. Maybe they need some EQ? So what? That is normal for new sounds. So you say "I'm not buying this library" blah-blah - what a bunch of crap.
The Dimension strings are the best thing that has yet been created for string samples, and to trash them here is disgusting to me.
Chill down a bit and read through the thread again. In my most humble opinion, you are way too sensitive to any statement that could be considered criticism of VSL, just or not. I love the products from VSL, they are second to none, both in terms of sample quality and software. I took advantage of the early bird offer when the violins where released, so I've already downloaded and installed the cellos. I do think they sound great.
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It does sound fantastic! I've produced some songs with the dimension cellos already and they allow me much more depth and richness than any sample has ever before, so I do really think they are worth every single penny. What’s so great with the Dimension instruments is that they have so much variety. I've used them in Baroque pieces as well as large scale neo-orchestral movie score "kind-of" music and they adapt. Whatever I am after, I get there with a little mixing.
Guy, awesome demos. I would LOVE (...LOVE.LOVE) to see some examples of how you mix your demos...(Pretty please?). Do you only use tools from VSL or do you blend with other plugins? I would love to learn more how you utilize the EQ, limiter, compressor.
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@jhonny.eriksson said:
What’s so great with the Dimension instruments is that they have so much variety.That's exactly how I reacted. The variety is incredible and extends through all articulations. For example, not only the tone of each player is different - sometimes very noticeably - but exactly the way each one plays a staccato is just a little different giving an enormous espressivo range.
I agree it would be good to hear what was done differently in these mixes, though it does depend on the music, what you are going for, etc. One thing to realize is the preset instrument profiles in MIR have many different EQ settings - one I have found is very good is the "Clean Low End" setting. This addresses something I've noticed happens with cellos in an orchestra, rather than miked close up. Close up a cello has a deep booming bass, but in an orchestral setting becomes much less bass and more tenor in its actual amplitude projected out into the audience. So it is essential to cut that bass while keeping the rich mid range.
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I also updated Cellos on The Run (Updated with addition of solo cello lib)
That's really night and day with the old version. Very nice composition, and great cello sound.
Criticisms: some of the faster parts sound a little fishy, such as the descending three note figures at 0:10 and 1:00, and the ascending run at 1:45. The tremolos at 0:30 don't sound right, either. Timings are loose overall, and sometimes it sounds like it's for human effect, and sometimes it sounds like samples being out of sync.
Other than those specific points, it's astoundingly easy to imagine you're listening to actual players. While it appears to be harder to wield than previous collections, the sheer detail of the recordings seems to give DS the highest level of fool-the-ear realism yet.
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Glad to see it's more appealing. I think the great thing about dimension strings is it gives an actual possibility to play around with the timbre using other libraries, (Appa, chamber, solo, orchestra) in a more subtle way.
Thanks for all your comments clamnectar. I did some tweaking since I posted it yesterday, maybe it covered some of your comments, although, I didn't understand all of them: The fishy notes? ;) The tremolo is actually fast repetition notes. It was a bit high for the cello this tremolo passage, much more typical for violas or violin, so it was a bit a lot to ask here, so I thought the fast rep notes sounded better here. I actually think it sounds good, but could be a personal thing. You may have a better ear than I do.