I have a question for the community.

{RANT}

Most of you at this VSL community seem to be completely geared toward
having two machines, lots of ram, Gigastudio or Logic... PC or Mac. It's as if
some of you know nothing beyond the orchestra-sampled world. What
about Cubase, Fruityloops, Native Instruments? Reaktor, Absynth?
Stormdrum, Quantum Leap Ra, Bela D? It's as if some of you have no plan.
All you want is ONE library, ONE sequencer, ONE computer (or two); spending
all this money just to be able to use "COMPLETE ORCHESTRAL PACKAGE".
How will you get anywhere with *just* an orchestra? There's more than just
VSL.

Maybe some of you don't realize what it takes to get a career in music. You
will not make it past a bedroom hobbyist if all you are going to focus on is
BORING and UNORIGINAL orchestral music, or any other single genre. Film
requires more than the best orchestrations and the Game industry requires
a knowledge of every single genre in existence. Rock, Celtic, new
age, electronica, ambience, breakbeat, chemical, jazz, Latin, west indian,
east indian, renaissance, and any combinations. Not only that, every career
with music will require a good knowledge of sound design and that's a
whole other world in itself.

{/RANT}

[H] - So my question, what are your plans? What are your libraries? What
are your softwares and hardwares? What is your knowledge?

@Argitoth said:

I have a question for the community.

{RANT}

Most of you at this VSL community seem to be completely geared toward
having two machines, lots of ram, Gigastudio or Logic... PC or Mac. It's as if
some of you know nothing beyond the orchestra-sampled world. What
about Cubase, Fruityloops, Native Instruments? Reaktor, Absynth?
Stormdrum, Quantum Leap Ra, Bela D? It's as if some of you have no plan.
All you want is ONE library, ONE sequencer, ONE computer (or two); spending
all this money just to be able to use "COMPLETE ORCHESTRAL PACKAGE".
How will you get anywhere with *just* an orchestra? There's more than just
VSL.

Maybe some of you don't realize what it takes to get a career in music. You
will not make it past a bedroom hobbyist if all you are going to focus on is
BORING and UNORIGINAL orchestral music, or any other single genre. Film
requires more than the best orchestrations and the Game industry requires
a knowledge of every single genre in existence. Rock, Celtic, new
age, electronica, ambience, breakbeat, chemical, jazz, Latin, west indian,
east indian, renaissance, and any combinations. Not only that, every career
with music will require a good knowledge of sound design and that's a
whole other world in itself.

{/RANT}

[H] - So my question, what are your plans? What are your libraries? What
are your softwares and hardwares? What is your knowledge?

Firstly, you have no idea who is in this community. Secondly by your comments you have just proved that you know nothing about orchestral music. How do you know what other skills we all have? Answer, you don't. Thirdly, it is not possible to know everything about every genre, that is why most film and game music is absolute c**p. You could spend a lifetime broadening your horizons (and you should) but you will still find that there are people who know more about every single genre than you do.
Many of us already have a career in music; wait until you do before you lecture us [8-)]

DG

Argitoth,
I have absolutely no doubt others will contribute to a discussion, possibly paraphrasing points you have made, but your rant is provocative enough to prompt even I to respond with some degree of mild irritation, so here goes.
'Most of you at this VSL community seemed to be geared.......'
I don't know if you read the name on the billboard, but this is a VSL forum, and although the owners of the site are democratic and very reasonable about off topic material, including discussion of other sample bases, we do discuss VSL to a large extent, because that's what this forum is for. If you wish a more general discussion doing the tired old comparison thread, which many of us have participated in before losing interest hearing the same stuff over and over again, I suggest Northern Sounds. You'll be reasonable happy there i suspect, given your 'enthusiasm' for telling all of us how we should run our musical lives.
As for Cubase, Fruityloops, etc, there are many on this site alone that have used one, two, or all of these products since they started, and i find it a little arrogant on your part that you assume we're all 16 years old, been nowhere, and done nothing. I can remember a time BEFORE these programs were began, and I'm only 45. There are others here even older than that, who have studied with great and well known musicians and composers, and written for Film, TV, etc in all styles.
'How will you get anywhere with 'just' an orchestra?'
(See DG,s comment about how little you know)
Many here (including myself) have samples gained over many years from personal recording, etc, which we use today, little gems that convey sound in a unique and special way outside of normal orchestral arrangements IF THEY'RE REQUIRED. It's because many of us know what we're doing, knowledge gained from experience and PROFESSIONAL use.
'Maybe some of you don't know what it takes to......'
I find this extraordinarily arrogant. Most of us ARE writing for a living, be it film, tv, symphonic, ads, libraries etc. By making this statement you have shown you have little or no idea of what it means to be diplomatic. Given your age, and i can't doubt your enthusiasm, it would be wise to back off, and listen. There are others here just starting out, and they've shown the wisdom of asking nicely, LISTENING, and learning much. We're a very supportive bunch, and there are composers here who have written and been successful for longer than you've been alive, so just take a breath before you batter us with your 'superior' I know everything viewpoint. You'll learn in later years, that if you are belligerent with others vastly more qualified and experienced than you, then you'll get nowhere.
'BORING and UNORIGINAL orchestral music.'
In this statement alone you have contradicted yourself, and i regret to say, made a fool of yourself. Celtic, Rock, etc. are all Genres many of us ALREADY have experience with. Why is Orchestral music any less relevent than any of these? Is it because you simply 'don't like it', or are foolish enough to dismiss it as 'outdated music.' If you're writing for games, you are going to go hungry, because the bulk of games released today are replete with orchestral music. So get your facts straight before you assume we're all inexperienced children aimlessly 'playing' with music in the bedroom. I've played in many orchestras, rock bands, big bands, jazz bands, etc over the last 30 years. Yes that's right, played. Because many here are professional musicians with performing experience, including playing with great names. (Some of the composers here are great names in their own right, writing for blockbusters.)

'Not only that, every career with music will require good sound design...'

TBC.........

'Not only that, every career with music will require good sound design...'

There are people here who INVENTED and contributed to the development of a lot of the 'sound design' you claim to have knowledge of. Not only that, but because sample bases are far more prominent now, and used more widely than ever before, AND require constant reappraisal of methods of use, people like Beat Kaufmann (The Guru), Jay Bacall, Dave Connor, William Kerston, the VSL team, Paul Robbins, DG, Cwilsher, Martin Bayliss, Alan Belkin, Mike vanbebber, Dave TubaKing, rawmusic, and many others, are pioneering new ways of working with such large sample bases, and developing better end product as a result. In addition, there are many here who actively test different program and hardware combinations, and then have the throroughly human decency to publish those results, helping NEW and experienced composers and users to make more informed and better decisions. And on top of that you get useful information about orchestration and composition as well.
I suggest you take a deep breath, and acknowledge there are great musicians here who can teach you much. If you continue to preach to them as if they are stupid, don't be surprised if you are ignored, or get caustic responses.
I'm not being high brow about this, but you might engage your brain, and use a little humility and respect before you consign us all to the bin of musical stupidity. (And if you think I'VE been hard on you, you've got an important lesson in life about to come down on you like a ton of bricks as others, renowned for their passionate and descriptive use of language may be more forthright.)

Alex.

I know that I know hardly anything... and I love it! Because I know there's much to discover.

I like to learn. And here's a place where people share thoughts, idea's, tips and tricks. And I'm grateful for that.

...and to answer your question:
I'm 25 years old/young.
I have Opus 1 and 2, Overdrive Guitar and FX Percussion from VSL.
I have Attack synth, DX REX, Worra's Prophet and MiniMOOG from Bigga Giggas; 8 bit sounds and various loops and breaks CD's.
And currently recording percussion myself like soda cans, stones, gaffer tape, computer keyboards...

Please behave, and be welcome.

EDIT: also gpt Epic Horns now!! Can't wait to use them (but have for a couple of months...)

argitoth, there IS more than VSL, much, much more, but this is the VSL forum... And it would be easy for you to assume that every member here is a devout orchestral fanatic, but the reality (as hermitage59's post has pointed out) is that there are a mixture of types here from all backgrounds, all styles, and all skill levels. Hang around for a while and you will soon pick out who does what and who knows what about, well, what.

I'm 35, have a bunch of keyboards/synths and synth plugins, Opus 1 with Pro Edition on the way, also plan to buy EWQLSO at some point, and run Logic on a Powerbook. The bulk of my career stuff (mostly performance-related) is on my website, if you get bored enough to check it out.

It's all very well for you to point out that you're having a rant, but it's better to not have to go down that road at all unless you absolutely have to.

I have one response for this. I created this thread to learn about the community, I wasn't getting enough out of anyone. As you can see the rant was effective. Maybe you should consider if I hadn't made the rant, I'd still be pondering; this is what you might call a "learning experience", sometimes I get that in high school.

@hermitage59 said:

There are people here who INVENTED and contributed to the development of a lot of the 'sound design' you claim to have knowledge of.

Whether or not you think I claimed to have knowledge of sound design, I know I don't have much at all. I don't have much in any area that I've spoken about. I am not disagreeing with anyone except with DG because I love game music.

So, Argitoth... do you have anything we could listen to?

Here you go: A Most Jazzy Day (Organ Rock)
Made with Reason 3.0

@Argitoth said:

Here you go: A Most Jazzy Day (Organ Rock)
Made with Reason 3.0

Heheh - that's pretty good. I jammed along with it actually with more of a Hammond gritty overdriven sound and it was fun. [:)]

Long time since I played anything in A minor.

Did you play it or program it?

Play it? Program it? To me those are pretty much the same. Actually I always do half and half. I play it and tweak it to perfection; it's really half and half for me.

@Argitoth said:

Play it? Program it? To me those are pretty much the same. Actually I always do half and half. I play it and tweak it to perfection; it's really half and half for me.

So you program it then. lol

No - just kidding. Interesting that you might think the actual playing then becomes perfection - after being tweaked. [[;)]]

for that comment you die. [H]

@Argitoth said:

for that comment you die. [H]

[:D] [:D]

I admire someone who can stick up for themselves. That's great. Hahaha!

So, how long have you been playing keyboards and who's your favourite influence?

C'mon all you old people (like me apparently, since I didn't know that PWNT meant)... just remember this quote from Mark Twain:

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. "

[;)]

So... get back to us in 5 years and see if we've learned a bit, Argitoth, but in the meantime have a blast making music. I enjoyed your organ jazz piece, you've got a "face" to your music as my teacher used to say.

To answer your insatiable curiousity I write music for TV (ads and docs) and theater. I'm 28. And I have m4d sk1llz [;)] And a black and white cat. Actually he writes all my music for me.

In addition to VSL I have a load of old Roland libraries and a Roland synth which I actually still use, old Emu libraries which I actually still use, Percussive Aventures 1 and 2, lots of drum loop libraries (not being a proficient percussion programmer... that's PPP for you acronym folks), Virtual Guitarist (not being a great guitar guru (GGG)), a bunch of ethnic and random sound libraries, sound effects from Sounds Incredible, and I even hire LIVE players now and then! Wow. Now THAT's old skool! [;)]

-Alison

[:D] Dietz! Well... 12 years between Argitoth and me... 12 years between me and you (assuming you were talking about me ), means things can only get better for me! [:)] But veteran status has less to do with age and more to do with how many purple hearts in the line of duty... which in the music world I guess means things like all-nighters, having your scores thrown out, having producers ask you to use less "flute" when really it's a bassoon, recovering from giga BSODs in the middle of the all-nighters fixing the flute/bassoon and then having your scores thrown out... [[;)]]

I can actually only feel sorry for Argitoth, the lessons he will inevitably be forced to learn in the years ahead will be hard and unforgiving.
The realization and creation of music whether on stage or in the studio requires many to work together in camaraderie usually led by a humble spirit with a single vision and the ability to bring out the best in people. I've been fortunate enough to work closely with two Pulitzer Prize winning composers and both were two of the most humble and kindest people I've ever met.

@tcovem said:

And a black and white cat. Actually he writes all my music for me.
-Alison

Cats are the secret weapon of all composers. Both of mine are better writers than I'll ever be and generally leave the room when it's a dogs dinner of a composition - which is often. Otherwise, they eat the flowers - then you know it's really bad.