@rpmusic said:

And yes it is that "LA Hollywood sound". Love 'em or hate 'em, LA players are the best at what they do and I loved it the first time that I recorded them there and do everytime since then (budget permitting).

Thanks again Alex,

I remember someone asking me how to get that LA Hollywood sound, "just like Star Wars". I laughed for a looooooong time [8-)]

DG

Wow! Tough room!!! I'm probably gonna get hammered for this but we're really statring to sound like musical snobs here. Let's face it, we're not practicing neurosugery. Just because someone isn't as well versed as others (obviously your more enlightend to know that it was the LSO) however, some peoples reference point isn't as elevated as others...let's not scare them off by making them feel inferior. I'm of the opinion that sometimes learning through osmosis can be just as valuable. And Alex was right when he spoke of others viewing these forums, starting their musical journey and offering them our gained knowledge.

Usually I never get envolved in quibbling, but c'mon guys...we're better than this!! Not trying to offend anyone....just MHO.

Rob,
No offence taken, and I wasn't implying a lack of expertise on your part at all.
As for the discussion?
I can remember many people who, in my student days, helped selflessly. I considered it an honourable attitude, and have tried to do the same in my lifetime. In a public forum, there are many who are eager and enthusastic about tips and tricks, and It seems the right thing to do, sharing knowledge without judgement or conscious status.
I have a good sense of humour and a hide like a rhino, so I don't read things from an aggressive or defensive position.

Good to hear you're working, and doing well!

Regards,

Alex
[H]

Thanks Alex! Couldn't agree with you more!

@rpmusic said:

Wow! Tough room!!! I'm probably gonna get hammered for this but we're really statring to sound like musical snobs here. Let's face it, we're not practicing neurosugery. Just because someone isn't as well versed as others (obviously your more enlightend to know that it was the LSO) however, some peoples reference point isn't as elevated as others...let's not scare them off by making them feel inferior. I'm of the opinion that sometimes learning through osmosis can be just as valuable. And Alex was right when he spoke of others viewing these forums, starting their musical journey and offering them our gained knowledge.

Usually I never get envolved in quibbling, but c'mon guys...we're better than this!! Not trying to offend anyone....just MHO.

No snobbery intended, just pointing out that there is no LA Hollywood sound, and that the best Trumpet players are not necessarily in LA. I also seem to remember that a British French Horn player was "imported" to play the solos in "The Perfect Storm". Let's not be snobbish and pretend that American is always best, after all most orchestration technique is based on the work of Continental European composers. [:D]

DG

DG's right.
It's why I referred to the Wall of Sound as an orchestration technique, and not a region specific genre. As for best players, this discussion could go on and on. Players are players, and regardless of country, develop their skills according to their ability, not their place of birth. As i understand it, for example, there are many who acknowledge the horn section from the LSO as the 'best' in the world, and the string sections from the Russian Phil the same, along with the Vienna Phil, with many eastern european orchestras having a strong claim to the best W/W sections. (I've just had a flashback of the Brass parts written for the music to 633 squadron. Fantastic.)
That orchestration technique that's created the urban myth that is the 'Hollywood' or LA 'sound', is just that. A technique. (Take one Saint-Saens organ symphony second movement. Raise all dynamics one level. Add more brass players. Easy.)

The discussion about who's the best player is irrelavent, but the technique of 'wall of sound' or 'LA' orchestration has it's roots and placement in Continental European composition. It's probably true to say it will develop further as a genre on it's own with constant reference and the PR of constant use in discussion, but i have to be frank, for me, the 'LA' or 'Hollywood' sound is an illusion and accompanying label, from those who don't understand orchestration, and just want to write 'Star Wars' music. (No offence to JW)

Regards,

Alex.

I mean no offence to my american compatriots when i say this, but i have wondered before if the 'volume' generated (in general) by american musicians is a result of the strongly competitive nature of the culture, and the desire to be chosen for a seat in an ensemble over others. And the type of music seemingly preferred by film producers and audiences makes me wonder if the strong dynamics so prevalent is a reason for this.

Interesting.

One of my absolute favourite composers is Sibelius. Some would say that the only horn players that can really make it sound right are Finnish players.

@PaulR said:

Interesting.

One of my absolute favourite composers is Sibelius. Some would say that the only horn players that can really make it sound right are Finnish players.

I think that the way of playing for Brass and Horns differs more widely than any other orchestraral instruments, according to geography. However, as with the Viennese/French Oboe discussion it really depends on what the music is written for. Having heard the opening of Sacre (uh-oh, maybe I shouldn't call it that) played with the "French" Bassoon that it was written for, it certainly makes more sense.

DG

I'm learning that I have to choose my words quite carefully on this forum so I'll end my thread with this comment. In no way did I say that LA was the best (in the world, universe etc) I just said they were the best at what "they" do. Just like the LSO is the best at what "they" do (but I will be bold and say-and please someone somewhere don't slam me for saying this-they do have the best Horn section in the world...I know I've probably ticked someone off somewhere by saying that) Vienna is the best at what they do, etc, etc, etc. I was merely defending the people that I've worked with when I felt that they were being "down played" in a couple of post. We all remember where the origins of orchestral music derived from (yes, Europe...there I said it!) and contrary to popular belief, we here in the US know that the world doesn't revolve around us. That's why when I was up to do "Bpbby Jones-Stroke of Genius" I called the LSO to find out about their recording schedule (ultimately I was bumped by James Horner-but if you gotta be bumped by someone, I guess JH is a good one to be bumped by-and please lets not go down the JH road-I know all the controversy over his plagiarizing himself and other things) But are proud of the fact that even if the "LA Hollywood Sound" has sort of become like the word "Xerox" in refering to movie music I guess there's a compliment burried in there somewhere. My comments about sbobbery had nothing to do with this issue of who's doing what but more so with disrepecting an individual' lack of knoweldge about music or where a particular score is recorded etc. That's all...I just hate to see anyone inhibited to join in these discussions for fear of ridicule because the rest of us have had the fortune of an education and professional experience. Really that's all that was floating around in this small little brain of mine. Personally I would hate it if this country were the only source for what we do...that's a rediculous thought that I doubt anyone in this county shares. Once again, we're the "Gatekeepers" no matter what continent we're perched on.

I will say thanks for all your comments about the Tpts (which is how this whole thing got started) and thanks to Herb for getting me headed in the right direction with the right patches!

Happy writing all and never let anyone tell you there are "too many notes!"

@rpmusic said:

That's why when I was up to do "Bpbby Jones-Stroke of Genius" I call the LSO to find out about their recording schedule (ultimately I was bumped by James Horner-but if you gotta be bumped by someone, I guess

I wanna see that.The guy that helped Bobby Jones design Augusta, designed my local golf course. Alastair McKenzie.

You just can't have enough golfing movies!

[H]

Rob,
Healthy discussion and a sharing of POV in a civilised way is surely a healthy pastime. As you've discovered, there are those (me included) who offer an alternative sometimes, based on opinion and perspective. If you browse the forum, you'll find many discussions, passionate and objective, about a number of topics. The hollywood sound saga is not restricted to this thread. There have been many. And the discussions have prove fruitful for many (me included) who are open minded enough to respect and appreciate a different POV. I wn't speak for others, but I've learnt much, and filed away in the grey matter much information about a variety of musical and technical subjects.
It would also be fair to say I'm as guilty as many others when it comes to introducing alternate discussion in threads dependant on the subject material.
Far from being antagonistic, this thread has been a source of knowledge and reflection. Others have been far more 'enthusiastic'!
The discussion of players and origins is one of personal preferences, and there are those (again, me included) who will question and offer something different as their personal preference.
No one's having a go at you Rob, on the contrary, we're enjoying a conversation between peers about subjects we're amused, passionate or objective about. (Sometimes a mixture of all three)
And importantly, to get back to the origin of the thread, we've all learnt something new about VSL Trumpet samples!

Regards,

Alex.

[H]

Alex,

Thanks man! I appreciate the insight...I never want to offend anyone or come across as "superior" and after a blazing ripping thread from "William" last night (of which has thankfully been retracted) I was feeling a little beat-up on!

I'm with you my friend...healthy debate is a wonderful thing! And hopefully will join in again soon-in the mean time, back to cartoom music! Talk about too many notes! [:D]

@rpmusic said:

I'm learning that I have to choose my words quite carefully on this forum so I'll end my thread with this comment. In no way did I say that LA was the best (in the world, universe etc) I just said they were the best at what "they" do. Just like the LSO is the best at what "they" do (but I will be bold and say-and please someone somewhere don't slam me for saying this-they do have the best Horn section in the world...I know I've probably ticked someone off somewhere by saying that) Vienna is the best at what they do, etc, etc, etc. I was merely defending the people that I've worked with when I felt that they were being "down played" in a couple of post. We all remember where the origins of orchestral music derived from (yes, Europe...there I said it!) and contrary to popular belief, we here in the US know that the world doesn't revolve around us. That's why when I was up to do "Bpbby Jones-Stroke of Genius" I called the LSO to find out about their recording schedule (ultimately I was bumped by James Horner-but if you gotta be bumped by someone, I guess JH is a good one to be bumped by-and please lets not go down the JH road-I know all the controversy over his plagiarizing himself and other things) But are proud of the fact that even if the "LA Hollywood Sound" has sort of become like the word "Xerox" in refering to movie music I guess there's a compliment burried in there somewhere. My comments about sbobbery had nothing to do with this issue of who's doing what but more so with disrepecting an individual' lack of knoweldge about music or where a particular score is recorded etc. That's all...I just hate to see anyone inhibited to join in these discussions for fear of ridicule because the rest of us have had the fortune of an education and professional experience. Really that's all that was floating around in this small little brain of mine. Personally I would hate it if this country were the only source for what we do...that's a rediculous thought that I doubt anyone in this county shares. Once again, we're the "Gatekeepers" no matter what continent we're perched on.

I will say thanks for all your comments about the Tpts (which is how this whole thing got started) and thanks to Herb for getting me headed in the right direction with the right patches!

Happy writing all and never let anyone tell you there are "too many notes!"

Hmmmmmmmmm, and saying that the LA Horn players are the best is not downplaying the other Horn players in the US, never mind the world???

As you obviously know that there is no LA Hollywood sound, you should not perpetuate the myth so readily; then people like me wouldn't laugh so loudly when the phrase is mentioned. [:D]

DG

Rob,
I'm not going to speak on William's behalf, that would be offensive.
Instead i offer the following.
He writes passionately, and i know this, because Bill's a new friend of mine, and i have a great respect for the vast pool of knowledge he has in his head. It's the same passion that has produced a Symphony that took 5 years to write, and sounds amazing. In addition, and contrary to the busy and harmonically stacked trends of today, Bill wrote a wonderful piece of music called Elegy. It is elegant in simplicity, and a refreshing change from the 'blockbuster' trend we seem to hear in sample performed work.
I've never taken offence with anything written by others here, no matter the words, or passion in those words. The only time i got mildly irritated was when an alternate sample company sent one of their apprentices on a 'fishing trip' here, and the dribble he wrote trying to justify the 'quality' of that sample base was just too much to bear. (See thread including the phrase: Do you want a Rolls or a Ford?)
Bill, amongst others, says what he thinks, and I can respect that. There are others here who 'go for it' in a far more abrasive and direct manner, and yet nearly all of them have something useful to say. Maybe the words seem harsh, but the message can be enlightening.
Such is democracy, and if the words are put together in a 'direct way', well, some of us (me included) don't have the eloquence of others. One thing's for sure. It's refreshing to read opinions without the disgraceful and inhuman condition that is 'Political Correctness.' We're creative people. It stands to reason we're creative in this too!

Regards,

Alex.

@hermitage59 said:

Rob,
I'm not going to speak on William's behalf, that would be offensive.
Regards,

Alex.

OH NO!!!! I must have missed that!

[:D]

Okay, if no one is to be offended then DG...what is it about the word "they" am I not explaining? When I said they, it's very simple: they as a collective group in LA (sorry, but that's where they're located), doing anything from Disney theme park shows, to TV commercials, to an Aerosmith session and including the style they have developed for a certain genre of orchestral film recording and then turn right around performing legit classical.(sorry for the run-on sentence)

Just as the LSO is the best at what they do for certain other styles and genres. (they're also, believe it or not, less expensive! LSO that is...) For example: when I was considered for the Bobby Jones film I wanted the sound of the LSO...when Horner got it he chose LA. I didn't nessecaraly agree with the choice but it's comes down to the composer's preference.

That's just the way I see and hear it. Nine times out of ten I can always tell you by listening to the score where it was recorded. (Okay, eight out of ten) And as you know, the stage and/or hall also plays into this. I believe that they are a very talented diverse group of musicians that come from all over the world and that they are the best at what "THEY" do. Admitably, they sort of win that by default though because I'm really not sure where else there's such a diversity of music being recorded. (And remember I said "I'm not sure". I know I don't have to say "please correct me if I'm wrong" but please correct me if I'm wrong) It doesn't mean that they are better than the LSO or Seattle or Toronto or any other horn, brass, string, reed, perc etc players here or Neptune for that matter. It's just my humble opinion.

And also, I was never the one to coin the phrase "Hollywood Sound" so don't even tell me that I'm perpetuating it. I made sure that after it was brought up that I used quotes because it's not a real and viable slang. I originally used the term "LA type of TV and Film Scoring" as opposed to let's say the "LSO Sound" or the "Las Vegas Sound" or the "New York Sound" or the "Nashville Sound". And tell me that each of those didn't put a mental and audible picture in you minds ear. I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that Vienna has a different sound than London. Trust me, I take nothing away from any players anywhere...I have great personal friends in orchestras from LA to Cincinnati to Charlotte to where ever and they could play with whom ever they please. I don't even like LA! (the city that is!!) [:D]

Rob,

A request! Please use paragraphs for your prose - block typing is very tiring on the eyes. [[;)]]

Many thanks!

And that goes for the rest of you.

[:D]

@rpmusic said:

Okay, if no one is to be offended then DG...what is it about the word "they" am I not explaining? When I said they, it's very simple: they as a collective group in LA (sorry, but that's where they're located), doing anything from Disney theme park shows, to TV commercials, to an Aerosmith session and including the style they have developed for a certain genre of orchestral film recording and then turn right around performing legit classical.(sorry for the run-on sentence) Just as the LSO is the best at what they do for certain other styles and genres. (they're also, believe it or not, less expensive! LSO that is...) For example: when I was considered for the Bobby Jones film I wanted the sound of the LSO...when Horner got it he chose LA. I didn't nessecaraly agree with the choice but it's comes down to the composer's preference. That's just the way I see and hear it. Nine times out of ten I can always tell you by listening to the score where it was recorded. (Okay, eight out of ten) And as you know, the stage and/or hall also plays into this. I believe that they are a very talented diverse group of musicians that come from all over the world and that they are the best at what "THEY" do. Admitably, they sort of win that by default though because I'm really not sure where else there's such a diversity of music being recorded. (And remember I said "I'm not sure". I know I don't have to say "please correct me if I'm wrong" but please correct me if I'm wrong) It doesn't mean that they are better than the LSO or Seattle or Toronto or any other horn, brass, string, reed, perc etc players here or Neptune for that matter. It's just my humble opinion. And also, I was never the one to coin the phrase "Hollywood Sound" so don't even tell me that I'm perpetuating it. I made sure that after it was brought up that I used quotes because it's not a real and viable slang. I originally used the term "LA type of TV and Film Scoring" as opposed to let's say the "LSO Sound" or the "Las Vegas Sound" or the "New York Sound" or the "Nashville Sound". And tell me that each of those didn't put a mental and audible picture in you minds ear. I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that Vienna has a different sound than London. Trust me, I take nothing away from any players anywhere...I have great personal friends in orchestras from LA to Cincinnati to Charlotte to where ever and they could play with whom ever they please. I don't even like LA! (the city that is!!) [:D]

Waaaay too much time on your hands, but thanks for clearing that up.

DG

Nice reply...I'm out of here...

Sorry to hear you don't like Block typing Spartacus. I agree it seems odd to read without any break in sentences perpetuated by paragraphs.
Perhaps
this
would
be
better.

As
an aside,
how the
golf
going?

What's your
handicap?

Regards,
Alex.
[[:|]]