dco,

I think all artists have preferences that don't reflect the highest level of achievement. I can understand someone liking Empire over ST (including the score) because they simply find it more enjoyable. We just disagree about Goldsmiths gifts while agreeing about Williams immense talent. You're actually the only person I've ever heard state that Williams is superior in compositional ability. Goldsmith has exceeded him in so many different styles and conventions that people are just in awe of the guy (at least in the industry here.) Williams is a beloved musical personality who has ventured now and then from his base but just doesn't have Goldsmiths incredible cannon of work - but who does?

This is not marginalizing JW. I love the guy and admire him totally as a musician (don't know the man.) He has been unfairly criticized out of petty jealousy. I'm not in that camp: he's great! I just don't have him down as maybe the best composer who ever scored a film.

Dave Connor

Fair enough Dave.

On another topic, I hope you and your family had a great Christmas!

dco,

We did have a very nice Christmas. I wish you the same and more in the coming year.

Dave

@dpcon said:

dco,

We did have a very nice Christmas. I wish you the same and more in the coming year.

Dave

Thanks! I'm looking forward to more inspired discussions about music.

Wow,

I just read this entire post - bloody riot!

I will now pontificate on a few points.

1. Yes Andrew Lloyd Weber is a dreadful writer who has a genius for banality.

2. Yes I hope he reads this.

3. Yes it's okay to call a genius a genius.

4. Yes there are pompous academics who criticize out of bitterness.

5. Yes there gifted composers working in Universities.

6. Yes film composers borrow from other composers (some steal.)

7. Yes William is human but we're still waiting for the results on Evan.

Dave Connor

Happy New Year to a pretty sharp group of musicians.

Dave,

LOL

Evan

P.S. This thread turned into a MONSTER and I haven't found the time to read it anymore. I wish I had the time becuase it's been "a riot", but I am working on a bunch of things right now.

Evan,

Not to worry. I think it's breathed it's last.

If I was to continue I would talk about the coincidence that the two films my brother (USC film school grad now producing in TV) were Logans Run and The Incredibles. I can only say that if The Incredibles is considered a brilliant score than what in heavens name is Goldsmiths Logan's Run? I have never seen a filmed helped (made really) by the score to that extent. The main title which contains a perfect segue from orchestral to electronic is a wonder. The score that follows is completely remarkable.

I must assume that The Incedilbes score became fantasic after the first 15 minutes (all I saw) because it was only a standard sort of jazz approach that didn't seem to contain any originality. Logans on the other hand was a stunning display of film scoring and musical virtuosity.

Dave Connor

Evan,

Not to worry. I think it's breathed it's last.

If I was to continue I would talk about the coincidence that the two films my brother (USC film school grad now producing in TV) were Logans Run and The Incredibles. I can only say that if The Incredibles is considered a brilliant score than what in heavens name is Goldsmiths Logan's Run? I have never seen a filmed helped (made really) by the score to that extent. The main title which contains a perfect segue from orchestral to electronic is a wonder. The score that follows is completely remarkable.

I must assume that The Incedilbes score became fantasic after the first 15 minutes (all I saw) because it was only a standard sort of jazz approach that didn't seem to contain any originality. Logans on the other hand was a stunning display of film scoring and musical virtuosity.

Dave Connor

This score is definately a great example of this genre... the only problem is that this genre is SPY not Superhero... I was hoping for a great superhero score but the only thing I kept thinking was 007. Very good on its own... does not support the movie though.

But that's the brilliance of the score. It's not the same ol' heroic brass fanfares. I like that Giacchino went a different route. I think the music supports the film quite well especially since a good part of the film involves Mr. Incredible skulking around in enemy teritory like a spy.