@Another User said:

See - the same happened to me in the very same posting, thanks to Nick from The ProTools Guild Of The Right And True DAW ;-D

Sure I like Pro Tools, but I didn't intend it to sound like my religion! In fact I didn't upgrade to HD and sold my MIXplus system a while ago, so now I just have an MBox (but I use Logic most of the time for writing).

And as I said, if you can clip plug-ins, what's the difference? [:)]

This is the link. It's about 900k:

http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/48_Bit_Mixer_26688.pdf

Angelo, Thanks for the run down of all the ways to achieve this- I will have to try some of them..
Hetoreyn, it all started when I Got a job because of a piano performance I had recorded. They wanted to use that recording in the film- it was inspired, and totally in free time. Later when they wanted to add live strings there was no click-Everyone thought it was my fault-I suppose it was- but it was impossible to play to if you hadn't heard it 10,000 times. I ended up meticulously editing some poorly performed string lines to get a performance. Since then I have realized that for me "free time" is very beautiful and natural in music. I have been striving to use the grid around my time, and not fake it with artificial tempo changes etc. I still am not sure I am totally confident I can truly pull this off. I really want to give Nuendo a demo run and see how it feels. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, or seems trivial. It just doesn't feel right to me if i write on a grid.

I'm interested in this as well. In Nuendo (and I assume Cubase, too) how do you actually go about changing the tempo to match your playing -- once you've played in the midi sequence? Do you just move barline and beatlines graphically? I've been trying to find a way to do this in Sonar and can't seem to find an easy, or graphical way.

This is one of the features I would like most, because I spend huge amounts of time adjusting the tempo manually -- and the tempo window and note event window are two separate things and not even connected. One of Sonar's deficiencies I'm afraid.

Thanks,
Mahlon

@Mahlon said:

I'm interested in this as well. In Nuendo (and I assume Cubase, too) how do you actually go about changing the tempo to match your playing -- once you've played in the midi sequence? Do you just move barline and beatlines graphically? I've been trying to find a way to do this in Sonar and can't seem to find an easy, or graphical way.

This is one of the features I would like most, because I spend huge amounts of time adjusting the tempo manually -- and the tempo window and note event window are two separate things and not even connected. One of Sonar's deficiencies I'm afraid.

Thanks,
Mahlon

Basically you are correct. There are a few technical settings to follow, but you play, set the beat quantize and then drag the barlines/beats around until they fit your playing. It can just about be done in real time, or even faster, if you are only mapping bars. Cubase also has this feature.

DG

Here's what I do to convert free-time playing to actual bars/beats in Logic.

Play the piece in as you like-maybe on piano.

Make sure it's all in one contiguous part (glue together separate parts if necessary)

Open Matrix Edit, select all notes and drag first to bar position you like (1.1.1 maybe)

Keep part selected, go to 'Region' drop down menu >Lock [part] to SMPTE position

Now you can open the Tempo editor, insert tempo changes to line up the notes to the beats and bars. To do this I keep the Matrix Editor open to see the effect of my Tempo changes on the note positions).

Oh, what Patrick Wilson says, could also be done like that

Assign a pedal to the command "tap tempo," and the sequencer will follow what you tap with your feet, while you can input the music with a controller, for example a keyboard

The keyboard I suggest for VSL live input:
http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?storycode=4526:
http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/

.

Thanks all. All of these are great ideas. I am feeling much more comfortable having tried some of these ideas. I can't try them all because Logic express is missing almost all useful tools, but it lets me try some of them. Still not sure about Logic vs Nuendo, but I guess I'll wait and see if a new Logic rolls out with the new OS X..I have a feeling the next version is going to be very good. Angelo-that is one wicked looking controller- I am very afraid of it!!!

There is a sequencer that can do what you want much easier than the steps mentioned for Logic. The Midi Workshop, part of SAWStudio, for PC only. Last year, a feature was added that allows you to play completely in free time, then go back, and, using the arrow key, tap the beats where they belong while listening to your performance. You can then quickly fine tune those taps perfectly to your playing. A sort of ‘reverse quantizing’. I saw it demonstrated, and it was quite amazing. A totally rubato piano piece, beatmapped in about two minutes. Ready for orchestration, and/or export to a notation program.

Also, SAWStudio does have a video track for writing to film, and three versions depending on your budget: Basic, Lite, and Full. The Midi Workshop is an add-on, but it is the full version whichever host you choose. Check out www.sawstudio.com

@Ducasse said:

Angelo-that is one wicked looking controller - I am very afraid of it!!!

My wallet is afraid too! I try to convince myself since months, that I do not need one of those ultra-high-tec keyboards, but encounter schizoid difficulties of the seventh kind while miditating on it.

.

All these convoluted methods. Just get Cubase or DP. Then it is all so easy. [:D]

DG

I seldom use Cubase, so I'm not sure, but the TimeWarp tool in Cubase SX only works for audio tracks, and Nuendo doesn't have this TimeWarp feature.

Using Cubase SX's Timewarp tool
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/cubasenotes.htm

.

@Angelo Clematide said:

I seldom use Cubase, so I'm not sure, but the TimeWarp tool in Cubase SX only works for audio tracks, and Nuendo doesn't have this TimeWarp feature.

Using Cubase SX's Timewarp tool
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/cubasenotes.htm

.

Nuendo has both Audio and MIDI Warping, and AFAIK it is present in both SX3 and C4. Just look at the date of your link. [8-)]

DG

OK, I just checked and I was correct that Cubase SX and C4 both have Warp capabilities. [[;)]]

@DG said:

All these convoluted methods. Just get Cubase or DP. Then it is all so easy. [:D]

DG

That's just about what I'm thinking........ [:D]


M.

The best thing to do, imho, is to find someone or a series of "someones"-- a friend, an engineer, a dealer-- who runs each of these DAWs. Create a list of things you'd like to accomplish and try those ideas as experiments with each, perhaps with the person sitting next to you showing you the basics (or more than the basics). There's nothing better than hands-on exploration with the addition of an experienced person answering questions for you on the spot.

Of course, most people will recommend the DAW they use, which is natural. The only thing is that how one person prefers to operate can be quite different from how you'd like to operate even with all dignity and respect is given to the way any one prefers to work.

For some people, "easier" actually means "easier". For others it means a lack of flexibility. Some people have no problem twiddling with preferences. For others, this can quickly get to be a distraction where fleeting musical ideas are poised in thought as though they were on the edge of a knife.

There's no official right way or wrong way. There's only the *most comfortable way for you*. The only way to really figure that out is to roll your sleeves up and to get your hands wet, so to speak.

You can tap in the tempo either while you're playing or after the fact in many sequencers. The feature is usually called reclocking, and somewhere there will be an option to use a guide track. All it needs is quarter notes, which you can often generate by cutting/pasting from the out-of-tempo part.

Logic has that, DP does, and I'm sure all the others do too. It's not just SAW, in other words.

All excellent advice. I will go to my local pro audio shop and demo some different Daw's. Nick, can you explain how you do this in Logic? I am a bit green, sorry.