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  4. List your 3 favorite all-time film-scores
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    @DaveTubaKing said:

    Derek Jarman's "War Requiem" - Benjamin Britten
    The Score to 2001 Space Odyssey - several contributors.
    Death in Venice - again several contributors.

    But if I must play the game properly then;

    Scott of the Antarctic - Vaughan Williams
    The Belles of St Trinians - Malcolm Arnold
    Things to Come - Arthur Bliss


    Hehehehe.

    The Belles of St Trinians works really well - I watched that tons of times at the cinema when I was a kid and the whole thing was excellent. Of course, Alistair Sim makes a massive difference. Also, The Green Man shows Alastair Sim at his fantastic, sardonic best. A great comedy film actor - one of the greatest probably.

    Scott of the Antartic by Vaughan Williams - later to become a full blown symphony has been copied a thousand times.

    Also, William Walton could write for film now and again. Battle of the Skies is too good for most filmscore writers today - and indeed, most of his Battle of Britain score was apparently too good for the director at the time.

    But I think it's fair to say that most people today have absolutely no idea about what makes a good film score - partly because they have no sense of history whatsoever - and partly because they wouldn't know a good film if it came up and tatooed them on the ass 'THIS IS A GREAT FILM FOREVER'.
    This is always the trouble with this type of discussion. They seem to think a film is no good if it doesn't entertain them within 5 nanoseconds or they don't like it for whatever reason.
    There are tons of films I personally don't like that are absolutely brilliant - that's the difference between objectivity and being slavishly subjective when discussing this particualr artform.

    Rule No. 1 - the filmscore doesn't mean shit if the film is no good.
    Rule No. 2 - the filmscore is there to enhance the film.
    Rule No. 3 - the filmscore doesn't mean shit if the film is no good.
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    The Vaughn Williams score is not significant as a film score. Who the hell pays the slightest attention to that film? It is significant as a basis for the 7th symphony, which contradicts it as a film score. In other words, it was undeveloped as a film score and could go further as a symphony.

    You could never say that about Herrmann. His only symphony was a rather mediocre work, but his film scores are the best ever composed.

    Though Things to Come is a very good score, I agree on that one. I'm not sure it is one of the greatest, since the film was such a primordial work. Very uneven, largely as a result of H.G. Wells' tampering influence.

    I agree with Paul on the quality of the film. For example, Basic Instinct. A piece of shit, completely devoid of the slightest trace of value of any possible kind. Though it made money, of course. As a pathetic commentary on the stupidity of its audiences. The fact that a great composer like Goldsmith has to write for a piece of crap like that is a travesty, and a commentary on the abyssmal level that Hollywood has sunk to.
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    In no particular order:

    On The Waterfront, Leonard Bernstein (1954)
    Equus, Richard Rodney Bennett (1977)
    Rebel Without A Cause, Leonard Rosenman (1955)

    Other important favorites:

    JW- Harry Potter, Star Wars, BTTF
    Goldsmith-- Powder, Alien, others
    Hermann-- North by Northwest, others
    Miklos Rozsa-- King of Kings
    John Debney-- Paulie
    Carl Stalling-- anything
    Randy Newman-- Awakenings
    Patrick Williams-- Julian Po (1997)
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    Hmmmm,
    ok.

    1. Shostakovich-Zoya.

    2. Hermann-Psycho

    3.Maxim Ziv-The troubled Sunday.

    There's a few others, but these are a combination of good filmwork, and great music.

    Interesting tastes in film music some of you have.

    [[:|]] [:D]
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    @JWL said:

    In no particular order:

    On The Waterfront, Leonard Bernstein (1954)

    Goldsmith-- Powder, Alien, others

    Miklos Rozsa-- King of Kings


    On the Waterfront is a seminal film of course and a great lesson in 'the method'. I personally thought Lee J Cobb was better than Brando - but everyone remembers Brando. Karl Marlden, Rod Steiger etc - those actors had character.

    The score by Bernstien was later borrowed, I believe by Goldsmith for LA Confidential.

    When we were kids - we were all trouped off to the cinema to see King of Kings - for religious education I believe. I came out with a musical one. Miklos Rozsa was the best at the 'biblical' sound and any fanfare you care to mention. He was friend of Herrmann's - when Herrmann wasn't wearing him down with constant grumbling and shouting.
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    Wow. I didn't think anyone was aware of King of Kings. Everyone always pushes Ben Hur. KoK was a very important score to me as a kid. I saw the film once on a network broadcast when I was in fifth grade. The music stayed in my head for years until a chance encounter with the Estate, which has since led to a reconstruction of the lost score.

    The Rosenman and Bernstein scores just pulled me inside those films and wouldn't let me go. In all cases, the use of harmony, rhythm, orchestral texture, and leitmotif just slayed me into the next life. I don't think I've ever recovered.

    The other mentions had similar personal impact, but there are several I've failed to mention only because they were important in different ways-- and I'd exceeded my "three most" quota!!
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    @JWL said:

    Wow. I didn't think anyone was aware of King of Kings. Everyone always pushes Ben Hur. KoK was a very important score to me as a kid.


    You want to hear a really good and perhaps not so well known Miklos Rozsa score - hire out The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. He had the great ability to mark a film in exactly the right way when he was on form. That is a lesson in scoring a film that perhaps didn't have a huge budget - and making it something special.
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    @JWL said:


    JW- Harry Potter, Star Wars, BTTF


    BTTF = Back to the Future? That was Alan Silvestri
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    Hey Paul have you heard (and seen) "The Power" with Rosza's score? That is one of his best and a very weird one. Nothing like his epics. Though of course he was famous for (to some degree) rewriting one score to fit each new movie assignment. He only really did this on films he was not inspired by. He had great taste in cinema, because his most inspired music is always from the truly best films he scored, not merely the most popular. For example again, "The Power." A totally forgotten film, not even on video now, even though it was brilliantly directed by Byron Haskin who directed the original "War of the Worlds."

    On the epic side of Rozsa though, people always talk about Ben Hur it is true. But he wrote his best march ever for Quo Vadis. That is an awe-inspiring 6 minutes of music.

    That's good that JWL mentions Leonard Rosenman. He is one of the most interesting and little known film composers. In the midst of the flowery romanticism or Mancini-copycat stuff being done by everyone else, he was writing pure, powerful atonalism. One extremely bizarre example is "Beneath the Planet of the Apes." Yes, I know that is a fairly tacky movie, but it had some great surreal scenes in it (which is why I like it better than the more intelligent original film), and a fantastic score. Another clinic on how to do a movie score first of all, but beyond that, some weirdly beautiful sounds created for the more insane scenes of the film, including a devotional hymn for chorus and organ to the glory of the hydrogen bomb.
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    @William said:

    Hey Paul have you heard (and seen) "The Power" with Rosza's score? That is one of his best and a very weird one. .


    I haven't seen The Power for many years Bill - a strange, almost psychedelic sixties film with unusual casting of George Hamilton. I recall Suzanne Pleshette and Yvonne de Carlo of course. Hehehe!

    Qua Vardis is great fun and a great Rosza score - most memorable for Rosza and an immensely funny portrayal of Nero by Peter Ustinov. That takes me back to the 'way I see Nerrow' by the director to Ustinov - son of a bitch that plays with himself nights. Great music in that one.
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    Korngold said that Rosza was the best composer working in film. Hard to imagine a more authoritive source.

    Rosza's scores have a directness and almost simplicity that serve the film perfectly without complicating things for the listener. At least that's what I always thought until I happen to watch Ben Hur with headphones one night. The detail and subtlety of moving parts astonished me - genius level writing everywhere.

    Of course no one loved canon more than Rosza.
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    @dpcon said:

    Korngold said that Rosza was the best composer working in film. Hard to imagine a more authoritive source.

    Rosza's scores have a directness and almost simplicity that serve the film perfectly without complicating things for the listener. At least that's what I always thought until I happen to watch Ben Hur with headphones one night. The detail and subtlety of moving parts astonished me - genius level writing everywhere.

    Of course no one loved canon more than Rosza.


    Hello Dave,how are you? Long time no hear. Hope you're well and successful.

    Rosza had that magic touch that gives me heart for a change from the current batch. Great writer, and not afraid to put the full weight of his aural symphonic education up against the images. For me, he's the undisputed master of epic writing, grand entrances (be they Caesar or otherwise), without being limited to that genre. And given the wide scope of style, sound, and nuance he employed, he must have had some imagination.

    Regards,

    Alex.
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    I think Miklos Rosza Taught Burt Bacharach also. I hope I'm talking about the right Composer. Bacharach said he composed a short sonatina learning from Rosza. And Rosza incouraged Bacharach not to be ashamed of his songwriting.

    Bacharach and Roger nichols, Paul mcartney, are they the worlds best songwriters?

    Roger Nichols used the best orchestrators , composers, arrangers, Producers to produce and perform the circle of friends with the Mcloeds brother & sister team. I think. My opinion is, this is the best songwriting production ever in the world. Was it because the skill of songwriting or the skill of Orchestrating, arranging, scoring ?

    Most Likely all of the above ?

    Alex you're on to something here. It all is intertwined somehow.
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    @hermitage59 said:

    Hello Dave,how are you? Long time no hear. Hope you're well and successful.


    Hello Alex! Well Let's just say that I'm well my friend. Actually did have a bit of (artistic) success lately.
    Seems I've heard about the Bacharach - Rosza connection so you are right about that I think. Interesting how the debate has raged on about the value of musical study while no one would debate the impact it had on the composers we mention here.

    Nice to see the intelligent writing of the usual suspects on this thread.
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    Oh, man. It does my heart well to hear folks chiming in about Rosza.

    compsr2000-- sorry about the bad reference! I was typing fast, thinking too quickly, and over my three-score limit! You are correct.
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    only 3? damn, that's a tough one..

    My choices:

    - Adventures of Robin Hood (or The Sea Hawk...mmm..any Korngold) - Erich Wolfgang Korngold

    - Vertigo - Bernard Herrmann

    - Any major work by Max Steiner

    In addition, some other GREAT GREAT works:

    - The Red Shores - Brian Easdale (a personal favorite, from the 1947 Powell & Pressburger Film)

    - Alexander Nevsky - Prokofiev

    - Any Aflred Newman, have you heard his colaboration with Herrmann on "The Egyptian"? it's awesome

    - Citizen Kane, Jayne Eyre, Psycho, Obsession, The Day The Earth Stood Still, Taxi Driver... - Bernard Herrmann

    - Chinatown, Star Trek: Motion Picture, The Omen - Jerry Goldsmith

    - Star Wars - Indiana Jones - John Williams

    - Once Upon a Time in the West - Ennio Morricone (i saw him conducting last march here in chile)

    - Lord of the Rings Trilogy - Howard Shore

    - Edward Scissorhands - Danny Elfman

    - Laura - David Raksin

    - Lawrence of Arabia - Maurice Jarre

    - The Incredibles - Michael Giachinno (one of my favorite "young" composers)

    - Suspiria - Goblin (Dario Argento italian horror movie)

    Miklos Rosza, Elmer Bernstein, Franz Waxman, Hugo Freidhoffer, etc etc etc
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    1492 Conquest Of Paradise      Vangelis

    Somewhere In Time       John Barry

    Scarface     Giorgio Moridor

    Just to name three
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    A clockwork Orange: Walter Carlos and others

    Lautary: Evgenii Doga

    Tango Bar (1988)

    Sergio
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    ...
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    Good choices SvK.

    Here are mine: Bullitt (Schifrin), The Untouchables (Morriconne), The Insider (Gerrard/Bourke).

    But we need a thread for favorite cues also, dont we? I'll start it.
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on