@samsonite789 said:

After messing about with the feedback routing, I found it to be really inconsistent and buggy. That, or I'm missing something. Either way, there's another method to route individual MIDI tracks from Ensemble instances to their separate audio tracks (and thus be able to freeze them as stems). Right click on the Ensemble plugin in the FX chain window and select "Create multichannel stereo outs" (or something like that). It will automatically create as many properly routed stereo out tracks as the VEP instance has set in its configuration window. Then, route each channel in VEP7 to the proper out (1/2, 3/4, etc) and the midi will send audio to *that* track. It increases track count but it seems more reliable to me than the feedback routing method.

DANIELE-ES,

I figured out what the problem was.  Feedback routing works perfectly.  I was just messing something obvious up; I can be real dense some times.  I'll post a detailed step-by-step guide shortly.

- Sam

Here's how to set up VEP7 with REAPER to do the following:

- Have up to 256 channels of MIDI per instance

- Route the audio so that each track feeding MIDI to the instance is *also* outputting its specific audio. This allows each track to be individually frozen for stem-related purposes.

Thanks to Tabby Cat for the valuable information on how to feedback route.

Step-by-step:

1. Create a track. Place the VST3i plugin of Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 on the track FX rack (MUST be VST3, otherwise it will be limited to 16 channels).
2. Open the plugin interface.
3. Click on this button.
4. Click on this obscure little bastard.
5. Set the following menu opens in the menu that follows: Midi Output, Midi Input (This is to allow REAPER to recognize port settings in VEP7 beyond the first one)
6. Now, build some MIDI tracks by opening the FX Chain window for the track that contains the VEP7 plugin. Right click on the plugin and select the following option. This will create a folder of 16 tracks automatically routing to the instance parent track sequentially from port 1, channel 1 to port 1, channel 16. Repeat this option for as many iterations of 16 tracks as you want to build for this instance. Note that you will have to manually set the port per track send for each track that goes beyond port 1. If there is a faster way to do this, please share!
7. VERY IMPORTANT - Immediately "un-folder" the tracks. If you don't do this, the feedback routing we'll be getting to will get messed up by how REAPER handles folders and signal flow.
8. Set up feedback routing for the project. Normally, that's not a good idea but since we're working with MIDI in, Audio out, it won't result in cataclysmic ear destruction. Go to project settings and check this option on the advanced tab.
9. Be sure to disable "Master track send" on the track with the VEP7 plugin, as we don't want *that* track outputting audio.
10. Now, create a send for each track you're routing back to from the "master track" (the one with the VEP7 plugin on it). Set the audio output of this send so that it matches the audio output set in VEP7. This is starting to get seemingly convoluted, so let's use an example:

• Let's say you have a track that you want to send MIDI data on port 4, channel 4 and then output audio on channels 15/16. Here's what the settings would look like in REAPER and VEP7 respectively:
• Here's the send from the MIDI track
• Here's the send from the "master track" that routes back to the MIDI track
• And here's what the corresponding channel would look like in VEP7

You have to do this individually with each track, but luckily you can save it all as a track template so you only have to do this legwork once.

What you have now is a bunch of tracks that send MIDI data to a "master track" with the VEP7 plugin, which then routes the audio data back to the MIDI track itself. Therefore, if you freeze any of these MIDI tracks, it will only freeze the audio of that specific track and leave the rest of the system untouched. What's more is that you can drag the frozen WAV file out of the track, unfreeze the track, and repeat this process as many times as you want, thus creating different "takes" of stems. Batch freezing works perfectly as well.

I haven't experimented with things like bussing MIR or other FX outputs to different tracks so that you can mix a frozen "dry" track post MIDI, but I'm almost positive this would work without a hitch.

Hopefully, this step-by-step clarifies this process and helps any REAPER users on here get the most out of VEP7! Let me know if I missed anything.

Peace and bunny rabbits,

- Sam

Thank you !!!!!!

It seems to work.

Do you mind sharing what buffer size and soundcard you are using? I have not be able to get my latency down to a rate I'm comfortable using. I run a 2012 maxed out Mac Pro as my sample computer and a 6 core 2013 mac pro as the sequencer with an UAD Apollo quad as my interface. I am away from my 2nd computer for the week but I have had zero luck getting Reaper to play nicely with VEPro. Are you all cutting off the anticipate FX feature?

Thanks for sharing your settings!!

@crd said:

Do you mind sharing what buffer size and soundcard you are using? I have not be able to get my latency down to a rate I'm comfortable using. I run a 2012 maxed out Mac Pro as my sample computer and a 6 core 2013 mac pro as the sequencer with an UAD Apollo quad as my interface. I am away from my 2nd computer for the week but I have had zero luck getting Reaper to play nicely with VEPro. Are you all cutting off the anticipate FX feature?

Thanks for sharing your settings!!

Sure!

Presonus AudioBox USB interface w/ current drivers.  Buffer size is set to 128, and then a setting of "2" in the VEPro plugin.  I do not have Anticipative FX turned off.  VEPro 7 settings are at factory default.  I'm on Windows 10, optimized for audio, quad-core 4.5ghz (OC'ed), 64gb ddr3 ram, single machine.

Hope that helps.  Let me know if there's any more info you need.

- Sam

You are getting much better performance than I am. I will have to take a day to try and trouble shoot what is making my system choke at any buffer less than 1024. Are you able to run large sessions (full orchestra) at 128?

@crd said:

You are getting much better performance than I am. I will have to take a dayto try and trouble shoot what is making my system choke at any buffer less than 1024. Are you able to run large sessions (full orchestra) at 128?

I embarrassing realized that I was trying to run my VEPro through my wifi connection rather than the ethernet cable between my two computers. Now that I fixed that I am getting much better results (duh).

The feedback routing is working well for me, except sometimes the first channel stops sending midi to VEPro if I have an effects send on the channel. Does this happen to anyone else?

@crd said:

I embarrassing realized that I was trying to run my VEPro through my wifi connection rather than the ethernet cable between my two computers. Now that I fixed that I am getting much better results (duh).

The feedback routing is working well for me, except sometimes the first channel stops sending midi to VEPro if I have an effects send on the channel. Does this happen to anyone else?

Another user found a bug with feedback routing.  If you have any of the feedback routing enabled tracks sending to anything else, the first (but only the first) track will not send MIDI if it's *above* the VEPro track in the track control panel.  If this is the case with you, try moving any tracks with VEPro instances to the very top of your project's track list and it should fix the problem.

- Sam

Moving it to the top solved it. Thank you! I am loving the workflow I'm developing with Reaper.

Thank you so much for this, Sam.

I'm new to Reaper after many years on Cubase and can't figure one thing out with your routing: Everything looks good but I can't figure out why I'm not hearing audio from any of the MIDI tracks. I'm seeing audio (colored red) on them, just not hearing it. I'm sure it's a stupid mistake but I just can't figure it out.

@Headlands said:

Thank you so much for this, Sam.

I'm new to Reaper after many years on Cubase and can't figure one thing out with your routing: Everything looks good but I can't figure out why I'm not hearing audio from any of the MIDI tracks. I'm seeing audio (colored red) on them, just not hearing it. I'm sure it's a stupid mistake but I just can't figure it out.

When this happens to me, the two main culprits are:

1) I forgot to turn on "Input Monitoring" in the track itself (not the one with the Ensemble Pro Server plugin, but the track that's actually inputing MIDI and receiving audio back).  Depending on the theme you're using, you can find this in the TCP (Track Control Panel) or Mixer.

2) The Expression or Volume CC (11 and 7, respectively) are accidentally turned down for that particular instance of VI or Synchron Player.  I can't tell you how many times I've tweaked CC envelopes, forgot I had done so, and then freaked out thinking the audio wasn't working when the reality is that Expression was just set at 0 the whole time!

Does one of those two fix your problem?

- Sam

@Seventh Sam said:

When this happens to me, the two main culprits are:

1) I forgot to turn on "Input Monitoring" in the track itself (not the one with the Ensemble Pro Server plugin, but the track that's actually inputing MIDI and receiving audio back).  Depending on the theme you're using, you can find this in the TCP (Track Control Panel) or Mixer.

2) The Expression or Volume CC (11 and 7, respectively) are accidentally turned down for that particular instance of VI or Synchron Player.  I can't tell you how many times I've tweaked CC envelopes, forgot I had done so, and then freaked out thinking the audio wasn't working when the reality is that Expression was just set at 0 the whole time!

Does one of those two fix your problem?

- Sam

Yes, expression and volume CC are always ghosts in the closet, hahaha.

Thanks for the help!

It was total rookie routing error, it turns out...years on Cubase and getting used to Reaper. 😊

@Seventh Sam said:

When this happens to me, the two main culprits are:

1) I forgot to turn on "Input Monitoring" in the track itself (not the one with the Ensemble Pro Server plugin, but the track that's actually inputing MIDI and receiving audio back).  Depending on the theme you're using, you can find this in the TCP (Track Control Panel) or Mixer.

2) The Expression or Volume CC (11 and 7, respectively) are accidentally turned down for that particular instance of VI or Synchron Player.  I can't tell you how many times I've tweaked CC envelopes, forgot I had done so, and then freaked out thinking the audio wasn't working when the reality is that Expression was just set at 0 the whole time!

Does one of those two fix your problem?

- Sam

Yes, expression and volume CC are always ghosts in the closet, hahaha.

Thanks for the help!

It was total rookie routing error, it turns out...years on Cubase and getting used to Reaper. 😊

Most welcome 😊  Let me know if there's anything else you need.

Also, I tend to be a bit of a broken record on this, but check this out:

https://reaticulate.com/

This articulation management system (for REAPER) - if you like its workflow - will save you HOURS of time diddling with keyswitches.

- Sam

EDIT:

This post I made might be of use to you as well:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m290245-For-REAPER-users--Articulation-Management-System-for-all-Strings--Woodwind-and-Brass-VI-Libraries#post290245

One question: I'm able to get this to work perfectly for the first port in VE Pro (which is Strings in my template), but I can't get any MIDI going to the second port (Brass in my template). I tried MIDI bus 2 and bus 1, with no luck. Is there something I might be missing? 

@Headlands said:

One question: I'm able to get this to work perfectly for the first port in VE Pro (which is Strings in my template), but I can't get any MIDI going to the second port (Brass in my template). I tried MIDI bus 2 and bus 1, with no luck. Is there something I might be missing? 

Make sure the following settings match, as pictured:

https://imgur.com/x57kq5Z

Essentially:

When using MIDI Bus/Port #1, the following settings should be made:

In REAPER's Send configuration window:

MIDI: [All] and [Channel #]

In Ensemble Pro:

Port: 1 Channel: [Channel #]

Once you want to expand beyond 16 instances and use Bus/Port #2 and beyond, REAPER's syntax gets a little confusing.  I'll use examples:

Let's say you want the track to receive MIDI data on Bus #2, Channel 12.

- Set REAPER's Send configuration for that track to:

MIDI [All] -> [Bus 2, 2/12]

- Then, set Ensemble Pro's settings to:

Port: 2 Channel: 12

Hopefully that clears it up and fixes your problem!

- Sam

Also, there's a little obscure pair of settings that might be the culprit of Bus 2 and beyond are not working.  Do the following:

- Open the Ensemble Pro Server FX window in REAPER.  Make sure you are using the VST3i version of the Ensemble Pro Plugin.  As far as I'm aware, Ports/Buses beyond #1 won't work in REAPER unless it's VST3 (this might have been fixed in REAPER 6).

- Click on the button in the top right part of the window that says something like "2/64" out.  It will open a window with a grid.

- On that new window, click the small button that says I/O, again in the top right.  You'll get a drop down menu.

- In that menu, you need to change a few settings.  They are:

• Midi Input -> Map REAPER MIDI Buses to VST3 MIDI Buses
• Midi Output -> Map VST3 MIDI Buses to REAPER MIDI Buses

Make sure both those are checked.  Once they are, Buses 2 and up will interact correctly with Ensemble Pro, allowing you to have 256 separate instruments in a single Ensemble Pro instance.  Yay!

@Seventh Sam said:

Also, there's a little obscure pair of settings that might be the culprit of Bus 2 and beyond are not working.  Do the following:

- Open the Ensemble Pro Server FX window in REAPER.  Make sure you are using the VST3i version of the Ensemble Pro Plugin.  As far as I'm aware, Ports/Buses beyond #1 won't work in REAPER unless it's VST3 (this might have been fixed in REAPER 6).

- Click on the button in the top right part of the window that says something like "2/64" out.  It will open a window with a grid.

- On that new window, click the small button that says I/O, again in the top right.  You'll get a drop down menu.

- In that menu, you need to change a few settings.  They are:

• Midi Input -> Map REAPER MIDI Buses to VST3 MIDI Buses
• Midi Output -> Map VST3 MIDI Buses to REAPER MIDI Buses

Make sure both those are checked.  Once they are, Buses 2 and up will interact correctly with Ensemble Pro, allowing you to have 256 separate instruments in a single Ensemble Pro instance.  Yay!

THAT was it - I had forgotten about that. Thank you again good sir.

@Seventh Sam said:

Also, there's a little obscure pair of settings that might be the culprit of Bus 2 and beyond are not working.  Do the following:

- Open the Ensemble Pro Server FX window in REAPER.  Make sure you are using the VST3i version of the Ensemble Pro Plugin.  As far as I'm aware, Ports/Buses beyond #1 won't work in REAPER unless it's VST3 (this might have been fixed in REAPER 6).

- Click on the button in the top right part of the window that says something like "2/64" out.  It will open a window with a grid.

- On that new window, click the small button that says I/O, again in the top right.  You'll get a drop down menu.

- In that menu, you need to change a few settings.  They are:

• Midi Input -> Map REAPER MIDI Buses to VST3 MIDI Buses
• Midi Output -> Map VST3 MIDI Buses to REAPER MIDI Buses

Make sure both those are checked.  Once they are, Buses 2 and up will interact correctly with Ensemble Pro, allowing you to have 256 separate instruments in a single Ensemble Pro instance.  Yay!

THAT was it - I had forgotten about that. Thank you again good sir.

No worries.  I guess the trade off for REAPER's flexibility is the interface is a little...unintuitive 😊

I recommend saving those settings into a track template so you never have to deal with it again.

- Sam