@yilalatavsl said:

Do you think legto-slur is normal? The most important thing of string music is legtoslur. Don't run away from reality.

One important thing for me is terminology. Legato slur is nothing new, it's the same patch we all know from the previous libraries and must not be mixed up with slurred legato. The real slurred legato (which you are referring to) for me is fingered legato, which is actually the normal legato. Legato slur is just a bit more pronounced with some portamento, more blurred. I think this terminology is and ever was misleading. Maybe I'm wrong.

@Eptesicus said:

Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?

I just think as I already pointed out several times, that just a couple hours after finishing the last download seem to me much to early to pretend, to know all about the right setup, settings, handling, and usage of every possihble option to be able to judge it's limits. I simply do not want to judge anything before trying hard, to get what I want in real project contexts.

I do have the imnpression that the most important difference between constructive critic and complains and ranting is the ability to become concrete in every necessary detail. And yes I believe you must have tried and explored all settings and reasonable combinations in realproject context, to be ready for conrete and constructive improvement suggestions.

I fear often more or less ranting complains are based on a often nearly irrational idealistic demand of what a product should be.

To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.

As I said I am currently still a good part away from concerns about how useful which single function is, since I still prepare some ambitious projects to explore it.. And of course I will give my feedback about what my impression is to work with. But somehow I simply have the impression, that complaining a product just a few moments after finishing the download seem to be in grerat danger to be simply superficial.

@Eptesicus said:

Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?

To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.

 

But that isnt what people are doing. There is a lot of detailed criticism in this thread that i agree with (so no point in just writing it again).

The legato needs to be totally redone and the articulations like sfz need to be properly done as well.

From what I can hear, the legato doesnt work because they seemingly can't get the recorded transition to sit properly inbetween the two related sustains. The attacks on the sustains are too much, especially for the non - soft ones so the normal legato, especially, just doesnt sound like legato at all. The transition is almost inaudible, and then you get this big attack at the start of the next note. That is why it doesnt sound realistic or musical.

Many libraries record the transitions going into a seperate/new sustain, which often sounds more natural and connected. Or, if they do it Syncrhon's way, they do a much better job of editing/crossfading the sustains and transitions.

If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.

@fahl: Acting as if a) people didn't havy any knowledge and experience to base their impresisons on and b) this was the only product of its kind on the market period, is pretty silly. You do not have to "try harder" to confirm that stuff that isn't there isn't there. Like a portamento patch for example.

You also don't have to conduct gargantuan projects to be able to tell that for example the sfz articulation is fake and sounds plain bad, or that the legato is subpar. That's called having a pair of functioning ears and experience with working with sample libraries.

You also don't have to wait for miraculous insights to realize that the library eats up 3x of disk space compared to others while offering less in terms of actual tools to work with.

The whole argument is wrong. The library wasn't released yesterday. Most of us have had it on their drives for at least half a year. People, in fairness, however in fact DID wait instead of putting out premature verdicts - perhaps hoping that the bigger picture would reveal itself after the new player comes into the fold.

Most people here have voiced measured and honest feedback and criticism. These are valid concerns and not something that only needs time to come to grips with. The library size won't shrink if I spend enough time writing music with it. A real performance fortepiano won't appear in the folder if I spend enough time repeating the word.

Nobody said that no music can be made with the library, or that it didn't have any qualities to it at all. But to simply fall back to the same old insinuations that critical voices are merely dabblers and idiots is doing a disservice to all parties involved.

@Eptesicus said:

If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.

That's a bit harsh, but I agree. It's new to them, for sure, to make a wet library. And I really think they have to re-think their recording and editing procedures. Maybe the old ones aren't working for this kind of libraries.

@JimmyHellfire said:

@fahl: Acting as if a) people didn't havy any knowledge and experience to base their impresisons on and b) this was the only product of its kind on the market period, is pretty silly. You do not have to "try harder" to confirm that stuff that isn't there isn't there. Like a portamento patch for example.

You also don't have to conduct gargantuan projects to be able to tell that for example the sfz articulation is fake and sounds plain bad, or that the legato is subpar. That's called having a pair of functioning ears and experience with working with sample libraries.

You also don't have to wait for miraculous insights to realize that the library eats up 3x of disk space compared to others while offering less in terms of actual tools to work with.

The whole argument is wrong. The library wasn't released yesterday. Most of us have had it on their drives for at least half a year. People, in fairness, however in fact DID wait instead of putting out premature verdicts - perhaps hoping that the bigger picture would reveal itself after the new player comes into the fold.

Most people here have voiced measured and honest feedback and criticism. These are valid concerns and not something that only needs time to come to grips with. The library size won't shrink if I spend enough time writing music with it. A real performance fortepiano won't appear in the folder if I spend enough time repeating the word.

Nobody said that no music can be made with the library, or that it didn't have any qualities to it at all. But to simply fall back to the same old insinuations that critical voices are merely dabblers and idiots is doing a disservice to all parties involved.

Hi Jimmy I do no polarise as you obviously feel I do. so no need for further excitment.

What I am simply pointing out, that I would not judge the behavior of a complex and powerful new software before using it seriously. And I personally do prefer to do that more than a couple of hours after the first download.

Still what you pretend you can simply demonstrate for instance with examples comparing the behavior of Synchron-Strings compared to previous  VSL-Patches iof you really believe, that the Synchron-Strings with more Velocity-Layer behave dynamicly less convincing, ort the Legato has not the quality of previous VSL-Patches (If I remember well It was the VSL who introduced Legato in Orchestral Sampling so to believe thy do not have the expertise for sounds a bit strange to me.).

So let us hear with concrete audio-examples from really comparable situations, what you mean, everybody can judge himself. 

Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?

(BTW.: to test Orchestral Samples with complete and original Orchestral compositions is not at all "gargantuan" but for Orchestral music pretty realistic and for real orchestralo music it is indeed quite common to be notably longer than 2-3 minutes, what gives room for a öarger variety of orchestral colors than any snippet-composition might present. imho at least this gives a good and representative occasion to explore the ability of a sample-libreary how far it is able to fullfill the demands of real orchestral music).

I think the player is nice, but lacking in some respects (humanization).

Honestly, with such limited articulations and techniques in the Synchron Strings, I wish I would have saved the money I spent on the pre-order and purchased Spitfire Symphonic Strings.  You get a complete set of beautifully recorded in-situ strings, multiple mic positions, with little lacking in terms of techniques and articulations (sordini, col legno, spiccato, sul tasto, sul pont, flautando, harmonics, brushed, digs, runs, falls, etc. etc.), don't have to wait forever for a player (runs on Kontakt) and there's a brilliant Universal Articulation Change Control system built in (I have one ruleset that controls ALL my Spitfire libraries, whether it's strings, winds, whatever).

The money I spent on Synchron would have got me more than halfway to purchasing a mature robust beautifully recorded in-situ library.

I frankly see the articulations and techniques available in Synchron as very limiting.  I will go to my Spitfire Chamber Strings instead every time for a more subtle nuanced sound.  

And I don't intend to pay hundreds more for expansions.

Disappointed.

Spitfire????????? OMG

Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....

well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"😛

@Another User said:

Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?

Don't be so ignorant. As I already said, people have voiced measured and justified criticism and you're dismissing it as loud, provocative ranting. That's why your objections can't be taken seriously. Anyways, this is already enough of the usual kindergarten on VSL forums for me. I gave my honest feedback and that's all that matters. Cheers!

@fahl5 said:

Spitfire????????? OMG

Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....

well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"😛

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to.

@fahl5 said:

Spitfire????????? OMG Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music..... well known for its [i]most discusserd[/i] "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to. Please don't lump everybody in with the individual whom you're addressing. Many of us appreciate the quality of VSL but are equally open to discovering comparable quality in other non-VSL libraries.

@fahl5 said:

Spitfire????????? OMG Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music..... well known for its [i]most discusserd[/i] "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to. Please don't lump everybody in with the individual whom you're addressing. Many of us appreciate the quality of VSL but are equally open to discovering comparable quality in other non-VSL libraries.

Point appreciated Acclarion, but it's a general sense I've gotten over many years of posting here.  

I'm a big fan of VSL products as well, but I really am disapointed in the Synchron libraries.  What the offensive poster doesn't seem to realize is that there's a reason that VSL pursued the Synchron series, and it has to do I believe with competition from the likes of *gasp* Spitfire and others.  If VSL had such a great thing going, why did they change direction?  

I own both the Dimension Strings libraries, and I agree with other posts, I wish VSL had continued evolving them.  They're great if you want to dive a mile deep, but sometimes you want a mile wide.  😊

@Another User said:

Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?

Don't be so ignorant. As I already said, people have voiced measured and justified criticism and you're dismissing it as loud, provocative ranting. That's why your objections can't be taken seriously. Anyways, this is already enough of the usual kindergarten on VSL forums for me. I gave my honest feedback and that's all that matters. Cheers!

I fear you did not make the difference between the samples available in VI Format and the Library in Synchron-Player Version, which is the only thing I am interested in. This no matter of ignorance, but a significant difference, since the Library was developed and intended for the Synchron-Player. And imho there definitly was scarcly time enough to professionally learn and explore the usage of this Synchron-Player-Library.

@fahl5 said:

Spitfire????????? OMG

Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....

well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"😛

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to.

It was simply the "quality", "usability", "sound" "agility" overall "maturity" and "legato" of the Spitfire Orchestra which I own and tried open minded and pretty interested in several real music projects which disapointed me so much, that this made me finally pretty happy to work with VSL.  nothing snobish, just a bit a pitty to have more or less wasted the money for Spitfire. And you know that especially the "legatos" of Spitfire are far from being very much apreciated anywhere,

OK I am not a fan of Nils Frahm, Olafur arnalds depressiv musical nihilism which more and more characterises the most Spitfire Libraries and marketing . If you think appreciating more brilliant richer Music would be snobish I confess being guilty 😃

I own every other VSL string libraries. I love all of them, especially Dimension Strings.

This one is the only one I frankly do not like. The main reasons: 

• Lack of basic articulations such as a real portamento
• Cheap/fake articulations (fp/sfz)
• Lack of expressiveness in high velocities
• No divisi like in LASS.
• No real innovation.
• => Bad value for money!

And so much wait for so few… 

I also feel that VSL do not care about customer feedback. They never « pamper » their customers. Plus, if you lose or break the painful dongle, you are totally f..cked.

My level of satisfaction so far : 2 / 10 (for the flautandos and some shorts).

I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".

But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music

I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track:

I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings. But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings... So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:

I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...

All the best

Beat

I have held back so far, giving VSL a chance to produce something they actually advertised. 

After having tested the new player i must say that i am disappointed. I initially liked the clear and detailed sound but it defintely does NOT  "set a new standard in sound, playability and realism".

- The sound is good for some parts, BUT the 1st violins sound muddy (I used the 2nd instead), the highs sound to sharp and it should sound fuller for an ensemble of that size.

- The playability might have improved over VI (time will tell), BUT its far off setting a new standard. Its just a pretty rearanging of existing functions. It can't beat Cinematic Studio Strings.

- The realism might be getting better with a lot of fine-tuning, BUT i would have expected that Synchron Strings blows us away...it doesn't. Claiming to "re-invent" legato is close to FRAUD (this was one of the reasons I bought the lib). Legato-blur is just a sad attempt to cover up its failure. Don't call legato inventive unless you can beat Cinematic Studio Strings. 

I would have wished to include this lib in my works, but its just not good enough. I would have expected much more, based on the hype VSL made about the Synchron Strings...3/10

(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)

I think it can be possible that we all are/were expecting too much. Re-invention must be seen in terms of the previous libraries and not in general compared to the competition. 

It's all in the product description. This is the re-invention:
1) huge amount of velocity layers --> okay, good idea, but no hearable timbre change
2) huge amount of variations --> okay, for me it sounds the same
3) less keyswitching or patch switching, e. g. repetitions built in --> okay
4) new algorithms --> okay, but where?

That's not enough, for sure. Not for a high-end library in 2018, and not for the money.

Maybe we could hear some feedback from VSL what the actual re-invention was meant to be and if they are happy with the current feedback of their customers? And I would like to know if the critized articulations like sforzatos and fortepianos are in fact fake ones.

I can understand that some comments may be harsh or unthankful because the VSL team invested all of it's time in developing and releasing this product. But I think that we all deserve some kind of clarification, especially all the early-birds having waited for such a long time only to realise that it was in vain, in my opinion.

@Veola said:

(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)

If you have the full version, I'll buy it from you (or anyone else reading this).  We can go to VSL together to organize the license xfer.  I've got the standard and just am interested in those additional mics. 👍

@Beat Kaufmann said:

I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".

But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music

I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track:

 

I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings.  But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings...  So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:

I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...

All the best

Beat

It is great to hear from a true VSL expert like Beat Kaufmann as well as the amazing fahl5.  These guys know what they are talking about from years of experience.   Synchron is a new library, with a new style.  I love the sound and am just starting to get familiar with it.  It is awesome.  Huge.  It will take some time to learn what is there.