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If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.
That's a bit harsh, but I agree. It's new to them, for sure, to make a wet library. And I really think they have to re-think their recording and editing procedures. Maybe the old ones aren't working for this kind of libraries.
@fahl: Acting as if a) people didn't havy any knowledge and experience to base their impresisons on and b) this was the only product of its kind on the market period, is pretty silly. You do not have to "try harder" to confirm that stuff that isn't there isn't there. Like a portamento patch for example.
You also don't have to conduct gargantuan projects to be able to tell that for example the sfz articulation is fake and sounds plain bad, or that the legato is subpar. That's called having a pair of functioning ears and experience with working with sample libraries.
You also don't have to wait for miraculous insights to realize that the library eats up 3x of disk space compared to others while offering less in terms of actual tools to work with.
The whole argument is wrong. The library wasn't released yesterday. Most of us have had it on their drives for at least half a year. People, in fairness, however in fact DID wait instead of putting out premature verdicts - perhaps hoping that the bigger picture would reveal itself after the new player comes into the fold.
Most people here have voiced measured and honest feedback and criticism. These are valid concerns and not something that only needs time to come to grips with. The library size won't shrink if I spend enough time writing music with it. A real performance fortepiano won't appear in the folder if I spend enough time repeating the word.
Nobody said that no music can be made with the library, or that it didn't have any qualities to it at all. But to simply fall back to the same old insinuations that critical voices are merely dabblers and idiots is doing a disservice to all parties involved.
Hi Jimmy I do no polarise as you obviously feel I do. so no need for further excitment.
What I am simply pointing out, that I would not judge the behavior of a complex and powerful new software before using it seriously. And I personally do prefer to do that more than a couple of hours after the first download.
Still what you pretend you can simply demonstrate for instance with examples comparing the behavior of Synchron-Strings compared to previous VSL-Patches iof you really believe, that the Synchron-Strings with more Velocity-Layer behave dynamicly less convincing, ort the Legato has not the quality of previous VSL-Patches (If I remember well It was the VSL who introduced Legato in Orchestral Sampling so to believe thy do not have the expertise for sounds a bit strange to me.).
So let us hear with concrete audio-examples from really comparable situations, what you mean, everybody can judge himself.
Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?
(BTW.: to test Orchestral Samples with complete and original Orchestral compositions is not at all "gargantuan" but for Orchestral music pretty realistic and for real orchestralo music it is indeed quite common to be notably longer than 2-3 minutes, what gives room for a öarger variety of orchestral colors than any snippet-composition might present. imho at least this gives a good and representative occasion to explore the ability of a sample-libreary how far it is able to fullfill the demands of real orchestral music).
I think the player is nice, but lacking in some respects (humanization).
Honestly, with such limited articulations and techniques in the Synchron Strings, I wish I would have saved the money I spent on the pre-order and purchased Spitfire Symphonic Strings. You get a complete set of beautifully recorded in-situ strings, multiple mic positions, with little lacking in terms of techniques and articulations (sordini, col legno, spiccato, sul tasto, sul pont, flautando, harmonics, brushed, digs, runs, falls, etc. etc.), don't have to wait forever for a player (runs on Kontakt) and there's a brilliant Universal Articulation Change Control system built in (I have one ruleset that controls ALL my Spitfire libraries, whether it's strings, winds, whatever).
The money I spent on Synchron would have got me more than halfway to purchasing a mature robust beautifully recorded in-situ library.
I frankly see the articulations and techniques available in Synchron as very limiting. I will go to my Spitfire Chamber Strings instead every time for a more subtle nuanced sound.
And I don't intend to pay hundreds more for expansions.
Disappointed.
Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?
Don't be so ignorant. As I already said, people have voiced measured and justified criticism and you're dismissing it as loud, provocative ranting. That's why your objections can't be taken seriously. Anyways, this is already enough of the usual kindergarten on VSL forums for me. I gave my honest feedback and that's all that matters. Cheers!
Spitfire????????? OMG
Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....
well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"😛
Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to.
Spitfire????????? OMG Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music..... well known for its [i]most discusserd[/i] "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to. Please don't lump everybody in with the individual whom you're addressing. Many of us appreciate the quality of VSL but are equally open to discovering comparable quality in other non-VSL libraries.
Spitfire????????? OMG Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music..... well known for its [i]most discusserd[/i] "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to. Please don't lump everybody in with the individual whom you're addressing. Many of us appreciate the quality of VSL but are equally open to discovering comparable quality in other non-VSL libraries.
Point appreciated Acclarion, but it's a general sense I've gotten over many years of posting here.
I'm a big fan of VSL products as well, but I really am disapointed in the Synchron libraries. What the offensive poster doesn't seem to realize is that there's a reason that VSL pursued the Synchron series, and it has to do I believe with competition from the likes of *gasp* Spitfire and others. If VSL had such a great thing going, why did they change direction?
I own both the Dimension Strings libraries, and I agree with other posts, I wish VSL had continued evolving them. They're great if you want to dive a mile deep, but sometimes you want a mile wide. 😊
Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?
Don't be so ignorant. As I already said, people have voiced measured and justified criticism and you're dismissing it as loud, provocative ranting. That's why your objections can't be taken seriously. Anyways, this is already enough of the usual kindergarten on VSL forums for me. I gave my honest feedback and that's all that matters. Cheers!
I fear you did not make the difference between the samples available in VI Format and the Library in Synchron-Player Version, which is the only thing I am interested in. This no matter of ignorance, but a significant difference, since the Library was developed and intended for the Synchron-Player. And imho there definitly was scarcly time enough to professionally learn and explore the usage of this Synchron-Player-Library.
Spitfire????????? OMG
Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....
well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"😛
Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to.
It was simply the "quality", "usability", "sound" "agility" overall "maturity" and "legato" of the Spitfire Orchestra which I own and tried open minded and pretty interested in several real music projects which disapointed me so much, that this made me finally pretty happy to work with VSL. nothing snobish, just a bit a pitty to have more or less wasted the money for Spitfire. And you know that especially the "legatos" of Spitfire are far from being very much apreciated anywhere,
OK I am not a fan of Nils Frahm, Olafur arnalds depressiv musical nihilism which more and more characterises the most Spitfire Libraries and marketing . If you think appreciating more brilliant richer Music would be snobish I confess being guilty 😃
I own every other VSL string libraries. I love all of them, especially Dimension Strings.
This one is the only one I frankly do not like. The main reasons:
And so much wait for so few…
I also feel that VSL do not care about customer feedback. They never « pamper » their customers. Plus, if you lose or break the painful dongle, you are totally f..cked.
My level of satisfaction so far : 2 / 10 (for the flautandos and some shorts).
I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".
But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music
I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track:
I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings. But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings... So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
All the best
Beat
I have held back so far, giving VSL a chance to produce something they actually advertised.
After having tested the new player i must say that i am disappointed. I initially liked the clear and detailed sound but it defintely does NOT "set a new standard in sound, playability and realism".
- The sound is good for some parts, BUT the 1st violins sound muddy (I used the 2nd instead), the highs sound to sharp and it should sound fuller for an ensemble of that size.
- The playability might have improved over VI (time will tell), BUT its far off setting a new standard. Its just a pretty rearanging of existing functions. It can't beat Cinematic Studio Strings.
- The realism might be getting better with a lot of fine-tuning, BUT i would have expected that Synchron Strings blows us away...it doesn't. Claiming to "re-invent" legato is close to FRAUD (this was one of the reasons I bought the lib). Legato-blur is just a sad attempt to cover up its failure. Don't call legato inventive unless you can beat Cinematic Studio Strings.
I would have wished to include this lib in my works, but its just not good enough. I would have expected much more, based on the hype VSL made about the Synchron Strings...3/10
(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)
I think it can be possible that we all are/were expecting too much. Re-invention must be seen in terms of the previous libraries and not in general compared to the competition.
It's all in the product description. This is the re-invention:
1) huge amount of velocity layers --> okay, good idea, but no hearable timbre change
2) huge amount of variations --> okay, for me it sounds the same
3) less keyswitching or patch switching, e. g. repetitions built in --> okay
4) new algorithms --> okay, but where?
That's not enough, for sure. Not for a high-end library in 2018, and not for the money.
Maybe we could hear some feedback from VSL what the actual re-invention was meant to be and if they are happy with the current feedback of their customers? And I would like to know if the critized articulations like sforzatos and fortepianos are in fact fake ones.
I can understand that some comments may be harsh or unthankful because the VSL team invested all of it's time in developing and releasing this product. But I think that we all deserve some kind of clarification, especially all the early-birds having waited for such a long time only to realise that it was in vain, in my opinion.
(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)
If you have the full version, I'll buy it from you (or anyone else reading this). We can go to VSL together to organize the license xfer. I've got the standard and just am interested in those additional mics. 👍
I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".
But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music
I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track:
I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings. But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings... So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...
All the best
Beat
It is great to hear from a true VSL expert like Beat Kaufmann as well as the amazing fahl5. These guys know what they are talking about from years of experience. Synchron is a new library, with a new style. I love the sound and am just starting to get familiar with it. It is awesome. Huge. It will take some time to learn what is there.
I'm with fahl5 on this - the Synchron Player works so differently than VI or VI Pro that few of us have sufficient experience yet to express a deeply informed opinion as to the library's ultimate quality.
Nevertheless, here's my shallow opinion: There's a dramatic improvement between my first Synchon Strings project in its original VI version and the rebuilt project using Synchron Player. Legato is much smoother; releases, which were particularly squirrely in VIP, are a non-issue now. It was no fun re-doing all the keyswitches, but in the end there were far fewer of them. I love having real-time control over vibrato; I love not mucking around with repetition samples, like the other VSL string libraries require.
So, my very premature opinion, based on one soft, lyrical piece, is that Synchron Strings is a major advance over previous VSL string libraries - enough of an advance that I'd classify it as "almost meets expectations." But I may modify that view when some piece requires a nice light spiccato, or relies heavily on sforzato, which I agree with others sounds pretty unconvincing.
Any change as radical as this one is bound to be accompanied by some missteps - and VSL has made things much worse with this library's piecemeal and agonizingly slow roll-out. Besides the near-nonfunctionality of the original version, there are now the countless hours people will have to spend porting their Synchron Strings sequences from VI/VI Pro to Synchron Player. Selling the library at full price before the player was ready created a vast pool of ill-will that's going to be hard to overcome.
--Mark Arnest
Sorry, only got the standard one.
(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)
If you have the full version, I'll buy it from you (or anyone else reading this). We can go to VSL together to organize the license xfer. I've got the standard and just am interested in those additional mics. 👍
I am not a pro, so could be wrong here. But the Synchron lib sounds to thin, almost like a chamber. Appassionata sounds fuller to me. Perhaps Synchron lib was played in in a very precise way with not enough variation?
The general sound of the Synchron lib has potenial, I am not deniying it. But at the moment it does not set a new standard. It just a normal lib not worth buying if you already own the popular ones out there. That is why we are dissapointed and frusted, especially after the hype VSL made.
(It would be good to hear other demos)
I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".
But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music
I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track:
I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings. But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings... So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...
All the best
Beat
I'm with fahl5 on this - the Synchron Player works so differently than VI or VI Pro that few of us have sufficient experience yet to express a deeply informed opinion as to the library's ultimate quality.
We do not have the experience but VSL should. By now, they should have many convincing audio demos to clear our doubts. After all it is their product. VSL should convince us it's worthwhile to spend the time and not wasting it. Apart from us being the early adopters who purchased the product purely out of faith in the VSL brand, I am sure they want to attract new customers as well.
The fact there is no convincing demo... it's already suspicious enough.
The fact VSL has been very quiet after last week release, it's even more suspicious.
Don't be surprised when they announce new product(s) in July... as a way to divert our attention.
