@Piotr
I do agree that the Synchron Series is a Hardware-Challenge for all of us. That‘s why I hope that Package 3 will be a total match! I count on the VSL Employees and that they know this.
SSD prices are falling at the moment because of last years high-demand-„overproduction“ and a much lower demand since a few weeks.
It seems that the pricedrop will reach a peak in Q3 and demand and prices will rise again. Time to invest ;)
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I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope)
And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library.But even if such an expansion came out - we would be talking about a package that requires close to terrabyte of disk space and would end up costing perhaps, what? Close to 1500 bucks in total? Only to deliver the same stuff that can be had elsewhere for half that price while being 1/10 of it in size. And you gotta admit, the least senseful thing to do after getting burnt on a purchase is to plan on investing even more in the same product. 😊
The way I see it, SyS needs an overhaul at its core - technically as well as "philosophically".
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Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.
Even if everybody here might know that I am far from being the greatest fan of the Way Guy Bacos makes his demo snippets all knew from them for month how this library might sound. No one here has complained any of his little examples. If you have difficulties now to do the same with even a much more powereful playerengine, who might be to blame for???
On the other hand keep in mind it is just a couple of hours that I finished the download for the Synchron-Player-Samples. Before I would judge my satrisfaction, I at least would like to have had the chance to establish my own workflow with the new library and its player engine.
This is the reason why sometimes i remind my "old friend" William who is asking those who are the loudest in criticising, for their own musical examples. to be able to evaluate based on what knowledge someone criticises.
Please keep in mind VSL-Samplelinbraries are musical instruments. You should learn to play them otherwise you are in danger to resemble the one who blame the Steinway for not playing Chopin for you by it self. What means the more powerful a library and Software is, the more you have to decide and the more it is up to your knowledge what yoiu can get out of it.
I personally have some doubts that anyone could have had until now time enough to really learn and explore all possibilities to get good results.
So here is my suggestion. Do not simply rant without any concrete example what you are talking about. Better give us all some days or better weeks to accustom ourself on the new software and library, learn to build good templartres, expressionmaps etc. and than let us compare what all of us have been able to make out of it, and which iomprovements we really would like to have.
The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download.
HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.
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The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download
It is not an oustanding product and the feedback is warranted. If they have employees working for them that think this is a good string library for 2018, then that is very worrying.
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I hope that after the disappointing Synchron Strings, that VSL will return to focusing on the Dimension series as their flagship line. If DS had the positives of SyS (increased velocity layers etc) it would destroy everything else on the market even more than it does already. In my opinion the Synchron line should be limited to percussive instruments, pianos etc. Anytime Xfades or legatos are needed, dry libs are the way to go. MIR Synchron Stage sounds great, and the different lines can be easily merged in this way. I still prefer the versatility of the silent stage for percussion/keyboard instruments though, despite how good as Synchron percussion/pianos sound and how playable they are. I would happy trade my SyS license for a preorder deposit on DS3, even if I have to continue to wait for a few more years lol.
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Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.
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HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.
I agree fahl5, and I wrote a "RECOMMENDATION" post about it... LOL 😊
The VI Pro has always been the most flexible and powerful player on the market for years: Play is totally unflexible, and Kontakt is complex and intricate being a platform for development... both of them often not 100% reliable... so VSL in my opinion did it again, and Synchron Player is the most easy to arrange and the more flexible patch builder and sample player I've ever seen. It's my opinion, but I think it's almost undisputable after you spend just few minutes reading instructions watching videos and more important, experimenting with it.
But...
- sounds artifacts and naive solutions are still evident and objective: I can't blame customers being disappointed, as I was.
- demos were already a bit weak... I had the hope they were made under pressure with unfinished product just to accellerate pre-sales and start pre-funding the expensive project. Now I realize some limits in the sound are unfortunately enbedded in the way the samples are layered. Extreme use of cross-fades and sample overlappings, even if made with advanced sound engineering, is a step back, is not a quantum leap. The probelm is even bigger due to the fact samples are wet, and everybody knows that it adds complexity for sound engineering and developers, to properly connect and blend them. This is again an almost undisputable criticism we can't blame customers for. The sound of cross fading and overlapping samples too often is going close to a "big-sample-synth-keyboard" of the 90's or early 2000 lybraries, and it's not the sound you expect from VSL.
- VI Pro was more transparent and technical... I'm missing in the EDIT window the level of details you had in the VI Pro advanced mode... looking how many samples play, how and when, how many and what variations, how a patch is created and finally manipulating every little ingredient to the extreme detail. Now it's obvious Synchron Player has another target, and aim for semplicity and "non-disclosure" of tricks... (but let me be a bit malicious, even because some tricks are not very nice to be disclosed, IMVHO).
Then due to the fact some "pure" samples in the lybrary are fantastic (not surprising, because great musicians and great technicians produced them), and the player is a fantastic concept, I still hope in the future. But now I have to join the number of disappointed people, with the already objective arguments we had above.
P.S. For the peace of people "Wiliam-like" I posted already music made with Synchron and compared with things I achieved with Chamber, Orchestral and Dimension strings. Working on projects in DAW and in Notation, the most valuable new feature of Synchron Strings is consistency and dynamic balance. It really saves your time and sounds in good balance immediately, so you can spend time refining expression and phrasing instead of fixing dynamic inconsistencies across sections and articulations... I hope going ahead I will confirm this great feeling I had working with Synchron. My 2 (and one-half...) cents.
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It is not an oustanding product
From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.
I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.
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It is not an oustanding product
From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.
I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.
The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).
It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.
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The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).
It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.
The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.
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The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).
It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.
The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.
I have tried it. I cannot get this to deliver as convincing or realistic performance as other string libraries, and seemingly no one else can.
Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?
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The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).
It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.
The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.
Do you think legto-slur is normal? The most important thing of string music is legtoslur. Don't run away from reality.
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Do you think legto-slur is normal? The most important thing of string music is legtoslur. Don't run away from reality.
One important thing for me is terminology. Legato slur is nothing new, it's the same patch we all know from the previous libraries and must not be mixed up with slurred legato. The real slurred legato (which you are referring to) for me is fingered legato, which is actually the normal legato. Legato slur is just a bit more pronounced with some portamento, more blurred. I think this terminology is and ever was misleading. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?
I just think as I already pointed out several times, that just a couple hours after finishing the last download seem to me much to early to pretend, to know all about the right setup, settings, handling, and usage of every possihble option to be able to judge it's limits. I simply do not want to judge anything before trying hard, to get what I want in real project contexts.
I do have the imnpression that the most important difference between constructive critic and complains and ranting is the ability to become concrete in every necessary detail. And yes I believe you must have tried and explored all settings and reasonable combinations in realproject context, to be ready for conrete and constructive improvement suggestions.
I fear often more or less ranting complains are based on a often nearly irrational idealistic demand of what a product should be.
To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.
As I said I am currently still a good part away from concerns about how useful which single function is, since I still prepare some ambitious projects to explore it.. And of course I will give my feedback about what my impression is to work with. But somehow I simply have the impression, that complaining a product just a few moments after finishing the download seem to be in grerat danger to be simply superficial.
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Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?
To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.
But that isnt what people are doing. There is a lot of detailed criticism in this thread that i agree with (so no point in just writing it again).
The legato needs to be totally redone and the articulations like sfz need to be properly done as well.
From what I can hear, the legato doesnt work because they seemingly can't get the recorded transition to sit properly inbetween the two related sustains. The attacks on the sustains are too much, especially for the non - soft ones so the normal legato, especially, just doesnt sound like legato at all. The transition is almost inaudible, and then you get this big attack at the start of the next note. That is why it doesnt sound realistic or musical.
Many libraries record the transitions going into a seperate/new sustain, which often sounds more natural and connected. Or, if they do it Syncrhon's way, they do a much better job of editing/crossfading the sustains and transitions.
If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.
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@fahl: Acting as if a) people didn't havy any knowledge and experience to base their impresisons on and b) this was the only product of its kind on the market period, is pretty silly. You do not have to "try harder" to confirm that stuff that isn't there isn't there. Like a portamento patch for example.
You also don't have to conduct gargantuan projects to be able to tell that for example the sfz articulation is fake and sounds plain bad, or that the legato is subpar. That's called having a pair of functioning ears and experience with working with sample libraries.
You also don't have to wait for miraculous insights to realize that the library eats up 3x of disk space compared to others while offering less in terms of actual tools to work with.
The whole argument is wrong. The library wasn't released yesterday. Most of us have had it on their drives for at least half a year. People, in fairness, however in fact DID wait instead of putting out premature verdicts - perhaps hoping that the bigger picture would reveal itself after the new player comes into the fold.
Most people here have voiced measured and honest feedback and criticism. These are valid concerns and not something that only needs time to come to grips with. The library size won't shrink if I spend enough time writing music with it. A real performance fortepiano won't appear in the folder if I spend enough time repeating the word.
Nobody said that no music can be made with the library, or that it didn't have any qualities to it at all. But to simply fall back to the same old insinuations that critical voices are merely dabblers and idiots is doing a disservice to all parties involved.
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If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.
That's a bit harsh, but I agree. It's new to them, for sure, to make a wet library. And I really think they have to re-think their recording and editing procedures. Maybe the old ones aren't working for this kind of libraries.
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@fahl: Acting as if a) people didn't havy any knowledge and experience to base their impresisons on and b) this was the only product of its kind on the market period, is pretty silly. You do not have to "try harder" to confirm that stuff that isn't there isn't there. Like a portamento patch for example.
You also don't have to conduct gargantuan projects to be able to tell that for example the sfz articulation is fake and sounds plain bad, or that the legato is subpar. That's called having a pair of functioning ears and experience with working with sample libraries.
You also don't have to wait for miraculous insights to realize that the library eats up 3x of disk space compared to others while offering less in terms of actual tools to work with.
The whole argument is wrong. The library wasn't released yesterday. Most of us have had it on their drives for at least half a year. People, in fairness, however in fact DID wait instead of putting out premature verdicts - perhaps hoping that the bigger picture would reveal itself after the new player comes into the fold.
Most people here have voiced measured and honest feedback and criticism. These are valid concerns and not something that only needs time to come to grips with. The library size won't shrink if I spend enough time writing music with it. A real performance fortepiano won't appear in the folder if I spend enough time repeating the word.
Nobody said that no music can be made with the library, or that it didn't have any qualities to it at all. But to simply fall back to the same old insinuations that critical voices are merely dabblers and idiots is doing a disservice to all parties involved.
Hi Jimmy I do no polarise as you obviously feel I do. so no need for further excitment.
What I am simply pointing out, that I would not judge the behavior of a complex and powerful new software before using it seriously. And I personally do prefer to do that more than a couple of hours after the first download.
Still what you pretend you can simply demonstrate for instance with examples comparing the behavior of Synchron-Strings compared to previous VSL-Patches iof you really believe, that the Synchron-Strings with more Velocity-Layer behave dynamicly less convincing, ort the Legato has not the quality of previous VSL-Patches (If I remember well It was the VSL who introduced Legato in Orchestral Sampling so to believe thy do not have the expertise for sounds a bit strange to me.).
So let us hear with concrete audio-examples from really comparable situations, what you mean, everybody can judge himself.
Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?
(BTW.: to test Orchestral Samples with complete and original Orchestral compositions is not at all "gargantuan" but for Orchestral music pretty realistic and for real orchestralo music it is indeed quite common to be notably longer than 2-3 minutes, what gives room for a öarger variety of orchestral colors than any snippet-composition might present. imho at least this gives a good and representative occasion to explore the ability of a sample-libreary how far it is able to fullfill the demands of real orchestral music).
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I think the player is nice, but lacking in some respects (humanization).
Honestly, with such limited articulations and techniques in the Synchron Strings, I wish I would have saved the money I spent on the pre-order and purchased Spitfire Symphonic Strings. You get a complete set of beautifully recorded in-situ strings, multiple mic positions, with little lacking in terms of techniques and articulations (sordini, col legno, spiccato, sul tasto, sul pont, flautando, harmonics, brushed, digs, runs, falls, etc. etc.), don't have to wait forever for a player (runs on Kontakt) and there's a brilliant Universal Articulation Change Control system built in (I have one ruleset that controls ALL my Spitfire libraries, whether it's strings, winds, whatever).
The money I spent on Synchron would have got me more than halfway to purchasing a mature robust beautifully recorded in-situ library.
I frankly see the articulations and techniques available in Synchron as very limiting. I will go to my Spitfire Chamber Strings instead every time for a more subtle nuanced sound.
And I don't intend to pay hundreds more for expansions.
Disappointed.