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  4. Key Switching Articulations in Logic, smartest way?
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    I have been playing with the speed control.  It seems amazing to me actually.  The only problem I am running into is that (by the way, it isnt a bug, it's how it works from what I have read and seen) when I say load up Violins legato patch, then load up Violins Staccato and set my speed control, played back live some of the notes get the wrong sample (what I have noticed is that it always seems to be the first note of the desired patch change).  I can even WATCH this happen when I open up VE3 interface.  I can see the delay of one note before witching to the other patch.  So if I play 4 legato notes in a row then do a chromatic scale up for 7 notes, the 1st not is still actually played with my legato sample, then the other 6 are using the staccato sample.  Which is for me not hardly noticeable, what is noticeable to me is when I do fast repitition notes and then slow down.  The first legato note is actually played with my Staccato patch and it's very evident by the difference in vibrato, atk etc.  Now I swear I read it somewhere that this is normal behavior because of how it works so I am looking for a "quick edit" to fix it.  To be honest, sometimes I have to really listen to hear that the note wasn't even played with the right sample.

    In Logic 8, what would be the fastest way to fix this?

    Another thing I need help on using the speed control is that I cannot ever get them to be "consistent sounding".  What I mean is say I load the legato patch and the staccato patch.  One is always so drastically different then the other (in atk etc) so my legato passages sound mf and my staccato passages sound fff or vice versa.  I am still in the learning curve moving from Gigastudio so sorry if this is an idiot problem to be having.

    Can anyone help out with these few things?  I would rather start simple and master a few little tricks at a time.

    Thanks,

    Maestro2be
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    @Conquer said:

    Sounds good - when using step record for both, isn't there a danger that the keyswitch and melodic note will occur at exactly the same time?

    Yes of course, but I use normal record for the melody, I use step record when it comes to key switching and some times I need to precisely position the input point.

    However, one drawback of key switches is it will be included with the score, the notation will be spoiled.
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    the notation will be spoiled.
    Not if you set highest and lowest note in your Staff style so the keyswitches are outside those boundaries...
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    That's a great tip, thanks. Hi Maestro 2B, your first staccato probably plays as a legato sample because the gap between it and the note BEFORE it (i.e. the last legato note) is too great for the speed control to kick in and make the switch. (Speed control reacts to how close notes are together, not the same thing as note velocity.) But maybe this should be a separate topic?[;)]
  • C
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    Well I have been trying different things for a while now with this subject in Logic.  For me so far hands down the most convenient and fastest way to do key changes for me is a second pass recording as DG stated.  Merge the two and done.  Even if you miss the timing of the key change note, you can simply go back and edit it and back it up or push it forward to the spot it needs to be in prior to hitting "merge" regions.

    Thanks for the tip DG, works wonderful and it's very simple.  Drawing them in never worked for me.  All it ever did was interrupt the note that was playing.  It never actually would trigger the key switch.  Was more of a mess and headache then anything.

    Maestro2be
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    The Audiogrocery [url=http://www.audiogrocery.com/a.g_toolkit_pro.htm][color=blue]Logic X Toolkit PRO[/color][/url] offers two awesome Keyswitching tools:
    1. Expression Mapper (MIDI FX plugin).
    2. Articulation Maps PRO (MIDI FX plugin).
    You can assign custom Articulation Names in the plugin Editor for the corespondent Key Switches etc. Those Articulation Names will be shown in the Logic Automation view so you can draw and edit Articulations easily. The AM PRO Maps offers Key Switch, Program Change, and up to 4 Control Change assignments per Map. Logic chases the Articulation automation perfectly (it is well know that Logic can not chase short MIDI Key Switches which is weird when you move thru the project). The A.G Toolkit offers two MIDI Channel Switchers as well which support changing the MIDI Channel on the fly via Key Switching, Program Change etc.
    1. MIDI Channel Switcher (Global Environment Tool).
    2. MIDI Channel Switcher (MIDi FX plugin).

        

    There are three Demo Videos in the site which show that in details.
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    The Audiogrocery [url=http://www.audiogrocery.com/a.g_toolkit_pro.htm][color=blue]Logic X Toolkit PRO[/color][/url] solves that easily.
    1. The A.G PRO Tools offer perfect Articulation Chasing for the Instruments which support Key Switching cause this is powered by the Logic Track Based Automation.
    2. You can transpose the MIDI regions as you want without affection the KS cause they are embedded into Automation (TBA).
    3. There are no problems if you want to print your MIDI music to score (the Key Switch Note events are not printed).
    4. All A.G Logic X PRO tools support CUSTOM NAMES Articulation (or MIDI Channel Name) Assignments which are shown directly in the Logic Automation. The regular Key Switches or Control Change messages (which are supported for the most of the Sample Libraries) can not be renamed to the corresponded sample library articulation names.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    In Logic I use bank and program changes to change articulation of VSL
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    Your workaround works in the "old way" - have you heard about the Cubase Expression Maps?
    The Logic X [url=http://www.audiogrocery.com/a.g_toolkit_pro.htm][color=blue]AM-PRO Maps[/color][/url] supports Program Change and Control Change assignments as well. The difference is that you can create User Articulation Names for the Maps and draw or latch Track Based Automation (TBA) which is shown as Articulation names in the Track Automation view. The TBA is much better for editing rather than opening each MIDI region in the various Logic MIDI editors to edit Program Changes or CC. The AM-PRO does not require any Environment Templates (I guess you use a heavy one).
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    [quote=A.G]Your workaround works in the "old way" - have you heard about the Cubase Expression Maps?

    Are you talking to me ?

    I would love to have Logic Expression Maps, this is THE  solution.

    You are doing a great job but we want to be able to do the same in the Logic score, and today it is not possible because in the macro you cannot deal with Meta events 

    What you have done and what I have done is a "do-it-yourself" because the develloper at Emagic and now at Apple are stupid enough not wanting to add an equivalence of the "Cubase Expression Maps" in Logic
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    @Cyril said:

    What you have done and what I have done is a "do-it-yourself" because the develloper at Emagic and now at Apple are stupid enough not wanting to add an equivalence of the "Cubase Expression Maps" in Logic

    I agree with you for that but it's the same for all others DAW (Pro Tools, Live, Studio One, Reaper, etc.). They don't have expression mapping either.

    The day Logic will have a proper articulation switching system I will come back to it. It's the only reason I use Cubase right now. 
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    @Another User said:

    You are doing a great job but we want to be able to do the same in the Logic score.
    As I mentioned above the AM-PRO focus is TBA which is much better because you do not have to select different MIDI regions open MIDI editors etc. In the same time you can work in parallel with any MIDI editor. For example you can dock the Score Editor, compose music and draw Articulation Map automation in the Main window where the Maps are shown with custom text Articulation Names. In this scenario the Score "is clear" for export etc - there are no Articulation MIDI events inside the regions etc. You can type and create Articulation symbols in the Score as well which do not mess with the TBA Maps. The Logic Playhead synchronizes the Score window and the Main window so there are no problems.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    [quote=A.G]

    How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra 

    Specifying Articulation in the score is THE solution
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    @Cyril said:

    How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra
    This was answered in my previous reply:
    [b]You can type and create Articulation symbols in the Score as well which do not mess with the TBA Maps.[/b]
    I.e you can work in parallel with the Score Editor and the [url=http://www.audiogrocery.com/a.g_toolkit_pro.htm][color=blue]AM-PRO[/color][/url] Articulation maps.
    1. You can create Professional Scores with text symbol articulation names for real orchestra (in the Score Editor).
    2. You can create AM-PRO Maps according to the Score ones and draw/automate them in the Logic Main window Automation according to the Articulation names you have created in the Score. As I mentioned before you can dock the Score Editor and work simultaneously with the Score Editor and with the Main Window (Maps Automation lane)

    [b]Note:[/b] It is quite possible if you want to create a specific Articulation in the Score which will be 100% playable by a real orchestra but your Virtual Instrument may not have this specific Articulation. In this scenario you can create a Map which recalls alternative sound patch/articulation which is not dependent from the Score (the Articulation Names can match in both editors). Hope see why TBA is best. It gives much more alternatives...
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
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    @A.G said:

    [quote=Cyril]How do you do if you have to give the score to a real orchestra
    This was answered in my previous reply:

    Do you have a video for this ? You should not have to enter articulation changes twice , also you should be able to change articulation just for one note 

    I noticed you had 16 midi channels where you define the instrument name, can you have multiple 16 midi channels, my template has 100 instruments

    How many keyswitch can you have per instrument ?

    Can you send 2 notes for a keyswitch i.e.  C0 C1, C0 D1, ......D0 C1, D0 D1...... (you need this to have access to the presets levell II of VSL instruments)

    When I write a score I have one line per instrument, I dont have a line that contains many instruments

    What you have done is great but you need to have access to the Meta data of the score to be able to have a real "LOGIC EXPRESSION MAPS" from the score

    I have put this in the Core audio develloper forum, but .....

    Ask for it, more people will ask more there is chance we will have it in 2101 ;(
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    @Another User said:

    Can you send 2 notes for a keyswitch i.e. C0 C1, C0 D1, ......D0 C1, D0 D1...... (you need this to have access to the presets levell II of VSL instruments)
    Yes, the Am-PRO can be updated to push 4 or 100 KS per Map (no problem). A few A.G users reported that they want to have two KS notes to make Combos (C2+G2; C2+G#2 etc) for the Samplemodeling Instruments. The upcoming A.G Logic Toolkit PRO v3.0 is under test period. Several top worldwide testers are trying it out now... Stay tuned!

    The main topic is [b]Key Switching Articulations in Logic, smartest way?[/b] As far I remember you contacted me in the past regarding the Environment Score Meta's or something like that? I know that you are an Environment Score (Meta) fan publishing some amateur Youtube Environment Templates tutors - right?. I fill that you are trying to be smart regarding any Logic Articulation Maps (Expression maps) third party developments. Keep in mind that the Meta events or the Environment will be never updated - there are many reasons for that be sure.

    If you still think that the Score Metas or the "old way" Environment Templates are the smartest way regarding this Topic title please publish why they are best.

    Rejoice