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  4. Major Frustration with the design of the User Interface of Vienna Instruments and Logic Pro 8
  • W
    W

    Sorry for the previous irritating post - I was myself irritated by the tone of this, as it seems to blame the wrong equipment. 

    This has got to be a problem WITH LOGIC because I have never had anything remotely like this happen even once in standalone multiple instance Forte racks. In fact nothing has ever gone wrong with the program at all.
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    I agree with Docmidi about this situation, I also find it frustrating using Logic 8 and VI/VE, I also understand what DG is saying ...but I do think that this problem should be dealt with as soon as possible. I know a lot of musicians who are turned off VSL because of this problem... Cheers Ian
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    @DG said:

    Huh? I don't have any programmers. What are you talking about?
    Sorry, I thought you are working for VSL.
  • D
    D

    Can I just make a request?

    Previous version of the Plug-in, if I open the interface, it take me back in the instruments articulation list [or last edit page] so If I want to change articulation, I don't have to browse/open directory of articulation list again...

    For example, If i load patch Solo violin universal, then later I want to add portamento, open the plug in, I wish to have the solo violin directory ready so I just load the portamento next to the legato... don't have to click bunch of arrows...

    Current version is NOT, it don't remember where the previous patch I load, please bring it back [or do I missing something]?

    thanks

    Sonny
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    @William said:

    This has got to be a problem WITH LOGIC
    And DP(and maybe Protools on mac)
  • C
    C
    Hi William, It's not just Logic, the same thing happens in Cubase also.
  • C
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    Hi DSStudio, Yes I remember when the VI interface use to work like you suggest. The other bothersome thing is when one tries to save a custom matrix, the VSL Custom directory is no longer present. I have to Start from the Root directory and work my way back to the folder with the custom matrix's. This all seemed to change about the time the Ensemble was released. This whole interface thing has been very frustrating to me ever since I switched from the PC using Sonar and Cubase 4 to the Mac using Logic and Cubase 4. The workflow using the VI interface with the MAC is broke and workflow efficiency has been severely hampered. I have bit my tongue on this one for some time but felt compelled to chime in. If VI wasn't sooo good sounding compared to the competition, I would can the entire $20,000 library!!! The way I see it, VI need to place some design emphasis on customers that are using the Mac environment / single machine. It seems that the PC world has the definite edge here (interface & memory) even though Mac has the most powerful machine.
  • W
    W

    O.K. - 

    i am using a completely separate sequencer/DAW system split between 3 computers so you are doing something else. 

    However the  approach of using VE on a VST rack or standalone works o.k.  Sorry if I was inappropriate in my post.
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    I agree with you William that it works fine in a VST rack. I've tried various combinations over the past 10 months trying for the best configuration. The issue as I see it is related to the Mac implementation and how the VI interface reacts with Logic or Cubase sequencers. I sure hope that the VI folks get this thing tightening up sooner than later. I was hoping the VE would have solved the issue but I have not been able to run two VE instances on the same machine within the sequencer without either Logic or Cubase locking up about 1/2 way through song creation -- hitting the memory wall with very little samples loaded. Running the VI has seemed to be the most stable in both sequencers, which in Cubase, allows freezing the tracks and dumping all the memory for a given instance. In Logic, I freeze but cannot dump all the memory (Logic limitation) -- therefore need to use the optimize in VI. I guess at some point I'm going to have to break down and buy a few more machines. I purchased the Mac Intel 8-core last fall instead of the three Rack PCs I had originally planned to purchase. Sweetwater talked me out of it and I have not been happy every since. Win a few -- loose a few..... Take Care..
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    I run VE2 standalone on XP64 and suffer many interface bugs.  FWIW, I had exactly the same problems with VE3 standalone when I tried it.  So the standalone version does not, in fact, work ok.

    It only happens with large memory usage (e.g more than 3 GB), so it's probably a case of sample memory overwriting the memory space used by the UI elements. The fact that it happens at the 3 GB mark hints to me that it has to do with some sloppy coding regarding the switch from 32-bit to 64-bit.  But I'm no programmer...

    I can confirm the issue with multiple instances of VE - I could never get them to work.  Major pops and clicks in the audio with only a few tracks running.  CPU usage increases very rapidly with two instances - it's much lower with the same number of voices on a single instance.

    rgames
  • D
    D

    Hang on a minute. there are multiple different problems being discussed here. I think that they should be separated pout. Please correct me if I've got this wrong:

    1. GUI window requiring too many clicks to avoid break in workflow. I think I've given the reason why, but I agree that for some people it would be good if it worked the same as a normal plug, without losing the advantages of the separate memory space.
    2. Running out of memory on OSX. This is because there are no 64bit audio apps on OSX. There will be as soon as Apple gets its act together. Be patient. VSL, or any other cross-platform developer, can't do anything about this without the co-operation of Apple.
    3. Pops and clicks with large amount of memory usage. This is system specific. My current template is 14GB or so, and I don't have this problem. Make sure that you have done the registry "hack" to increase the number of Instruments from 60 to 100 and turn off your paging file.
    DG
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    @Chuck Green said:

    I purchased the Mac Intel 8-core last fall instead of the three Rack PCs I had originally planned to purchase. Sweetwater talked me out of it and I have not been happy every since. Win a few -- loose a few..... Take Care..

    A temporary suggestion; run your Mac in XP64 (or Vista64). Two reasons for this:

    1. Cubase runs better in XP than OSX, and you'll get lower latency.
    2. You could use all your memory for VE by using the 64bit version, whilst still using the 32bit version of Cubase.

    DG
  • C
    C
    Hi DG, I've been contemplating doing just what you suggest. I've been told that I would have to reload all the Libraries again due to the operating system change. Do you know if that's correct? I have four drives -- 1 for system, 1 for projects, 1 for audio samples, EW and misc sound effecs and 1 dedicated to VI. All drives are 760 KB and I have ALL the VI libraries. I also have four 1TB backups, one for each drive. The files are copied not imaged. I also understand that Windows XP would also not be able to read them which would mean days to reload all the libraries and software from DVD. I kept hoping that a solid Apple solution was just around the corner but not so. I initially was lead to believe that Leopard was going to solve the issue but found out differently. At this point I'm not sure what's the better approach -- changing operating systems or just waiting..... Your thoughts? By the way... I see Cubase 64 bit available for download - Windows Platform.....
  • M
    M

    I just want to jump in to address a few issues that have been brought up in this thread.

    Two-stage interface (Mac):
    The reason for this implementation is that we made the decision to run VI's in a separate application, due to memory limitation issues of the 32-bit hosts. There is currently no way to embed an external application window inside an AU View, believe me - we tried. Hence the "Show window" operation. On the upside to this, once we release the 64-bit VI update, VI will therefore be able to use the full 64-bit address space, even inside 32-bit Logic.

    Gui issues on heavily loaded systems:
    Vienna Ensemble is rather greedy on GUI handles (GDI Objects). Both Windows and OSX have (from security purposes) built-in limits for these handles, and once you bump into this limit, things will start to mess about in a random fashion. (Buttons not working, mixer strips in the wrong place on the screen etc). This issue has already been addressed in our internal builds, and will thus be fixed with the next update.


    Thanks,

    Martin (developer)
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    Hi Martin, When Logic goes 64 bit can there be an update to VI au so it behaves like an au? thanks Julian
  • M
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    Julian, we are looking into the possibilities of how to optimize workflow with VI on Mac. Unfortunately I cannot give any promises here on the forum, which I hope you can understand. Martin
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    Thanks for the update Martin. Over the past year we seen some remarkable improvements to the PC side of the house and it appeared that the Mac side was set adrift. I appreciate the fact that your team is working on a Mac solution. Understand... It's been a long wait....
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    @MS said:

    we are looking into the possibilities of how to optimize workflow with VI on Mac
    Good news Martin. Please give us the opportunity to suggest features of the UI, success of software depends on gathering customers requirements and implement them. I suggest you open a forum thread for people to put their dreams.

    Thanks,
    Emperor.
  • M
    M

    Indeed, software is evolutionary by nature. You can rest assured that these forums are constantly monitored by several of our team members. Any ideas are discussed within the company and if considered useful or appropriate - scheduled for implementation.

    Cheers

  • M
    M

     i just thought i'd throw my two cents in;

    yes, the window issue is annoying. but i've gotten used to it by now. when editing between the VI and logic sequence,i just always have my left hand on command+tab, which automatically switches between active applications.

    it really doesnt bother me that much anymore. there's workarounds for most issues. I know this is a prominent one for many people, but for me there's bigger things i'd like to see them address. Such as the lack of Con Sordino  for basses in the Orchestral Strings 2 set! [:@]