@leperlord said:

So giga n Logic each have seperate yummy plugins exclusive to each ?
can I view the list somewhere ?

There is no list unfortunetaly. Perhaps something worth to work out at times. I was referring especially to Altiverb which is most missed by PC users right now because it's yet only Mac exclusive (not only bound to Logic tho, jsut needs MacOS) - there is a PC version announced afaik for the end of the year tho. However with Gigastudio you get an almost equally stuffed convolution engine, Gigapulse. It has some other features and doesn't use the same impulses, thing they got in common: they need horsepower. Which leads me to the next point: Running the VSL C.O.P itself needs horsepower and it's hard to give a good advice without knowing the roundabout of money you got to spend. There are more things to purchase than just the sounds to get a satisfying result and therefore a little start might sometimes be the wiser decision than jumping right into the crowded sea where everything is new and unknown and the learning curve is biiig.

PolarBear

PS: Third-party tools are hardly ever add-ons to software [;)]

@leperlord said:

And whats beyond sample mapping that should concern me in a translation ?

Faith in that it's working! Ha we're both on the topic at the same time it seems.

The EXS version of VSL will only work with the EXS in Logic that is Mac exclusive since Apple bought Emagic which produced Logic before. The PC line was abandoned back then.

The only thing that stopped me from sayng that EXS is not available on any PC system is the off-chance that some sampler I've never used loads EXS natively. Insofar as a separate, dedicated EXS playback on PC, we can't even get that on a Mac. A lot of users here would leap at a separate EXS program on *either* platform, because we could immediately double our orchestras without spending 1,000 USD for a second Logic.

"So was i right to assume since logic for PC is so old( in computer world)
this will be a limiting factor for me to go EXS ?"

The last Logic for PC was 5.5.1. which was released sometime in the summer of 2002. Logic did not incorporate the VSL performance tool until (I'm guessing) 6.2 or higher, at which point, it was entirely Mac. I'm not sure VSL EXS instruments would even be accessible to 5.5.1 on a PC, though I've never tried it.

"And is Giga more stable on the pc these days ?"

Based on my personal experience and the general thrust of the forum posts here, I think Giga on XP is in fact stable. I don't mean that you'll never crash -- it's still a computer. But as a rule, considering what it's doing, it's quite solid.

"And whats beyond sample mapping that should concern me in a translation ?" Keyswitching, crossfading layers, filtering, and enveloping would be the biggest. But if Chicken Sys in on record as saying it does all that... well... okay....

"would there be some way of testing a translation ?"

Hmm. You could try a crossfading (p+f) perf-leg trumpet that uses filters. If Translator can take that EXS instrument and render it successfully on a Giga, then my hat's off to Garth.

"...A little start might sometimes be the wiser decision than jumping right into the crowded sea where everything is new and unknown and the learning curve is biiig."

I quote it because it deserves to be repeated.

Cheers.

Thanks m8`s

I seem to be out of questions you guys are so good
you managed to shut even me up . LOL

Lots to think about here indeed .

Thats a good test to try plowman ....i love testing things , trying to find alternative ways to get to the same point . This really made me think


Thanks Polarbear n plowman & all in this forum

As Arnold said " I`ll be back "

I`m back Hahaha


Sitting here thinking.....of the way of testing a translation with chicken
systems like you mentioned plowman .

" You could try a crossfading (p+f) perf-leg trumpet that uses filters. If Translator can take that EXS instrument and render it successfully on a Giga, then my hat's off to Garth. "

I`d love to do such a test , then I could settle the issue once and
for all . I could post my results , then everyone would know for sure
This may save someone headaches and/or money .

So which trumpet set is it i should try , piccolo , trumpet in c
or bass , or trumpet ensemble are all i see on VSL site . & i`m
looking to see if i may just purchase this one you mention plowman .

Could you plz tell me more on how to try crossfading (p+f) perf-leg trumpet that uses filters . D ya mean by perf-leg(performance legato?)

io`ll have to lay out the dinero for the translatur n the VSL dvd
but i`d love to try this

Can ya plz give me some direction on this , n what do i look for
to be sure translator has rendered the EXS instrument on a giga .

Cheers

I own a Mac G5 and a 2.6 PC - currently not running Giga (but I could). You can get a lot of mileage out of a humble setup like this nowadays. For Logic/exs you need a Mac platform. For Giga you'll need a PC.

Having a sampler like exs that integrates seamlessly into the sequencer can really help the workflow. The streaming works great as well as the performance tool. With exs you won't need to render your audio sample feed from external sources - its all there and treated like recordings. With a Mac G5 w/adequate memory you can easily fill 55-60 instruments with plenty of room left over for 3-4 instances of Altiverb on your busses and multiple EQs and compressors on individual exs and external audio tracks.
Add a PC w/Giga or Kontakt and your instrumentation and mockup choices exponentially increase.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Frederick Russ

At this point, the best thing you could do would be to buy the demo. That will give you identical sounds in both formats. Then you could try "Translator" and see how close the final converrted sound matches the native program.

You'll also get a demo of the performance tool, which you'd need to confirm the final sound of any translated performance instrument.

http://www.vsl.co.at/english/pages/products_%26_shop/extras/new_demo_dvd.htm

Thanks Frederick

So plowman thats a great price for that dvd .

Will that give me some of those complex filters/layers etc that
you spoke of , that translator may well miss ?

& once translated with translator , is it a matter of aural/listening judgement
to see which sounds better , or with those more complex things you spoke of ,
" try a crossfading (p+f) perf-leg trumpet that uses filters " , will it simply
be a matter of the filters/layers etc...werent translated , so it wont even load , or give an error , or once again just a matter of good ears/aural judgement . in
other words , how can i tell if the translation did a true 1:1 copy & all is intact ?

i really hope this is not a dumbo question .

My experience on this is under 1 year , from learning keyboards , & all the
software . i`m still learning big time . It`s a huge , enjoyable , curve .

My closest to this stuuf i`ve used is ie: synful orchestra/Edirol etc..
Not as involved as Vienna i`d guess .

Thanks for all valued time & patience

"Will that give me some of those complex filters/layers etc that
you spoke of , that translator may well miss ?"

I can't recall if any of the demo sounds uses filters. Again, it's not a common element in VSL patches, and I think it's confined to the brass instruments. I'm not sure what the demo has in this regard.

But any perf-legato sound has numerous samples. It's a worthy test for Translator. And actually, it will be more challenging to get modwheel layers correct. Often the layers (dimensions) are in place, but the wheel must be manually assigned. Personally, I've never had a perfect modwheel translation -- I had to tweak after the fact. "Days of work?" If you're converting the whole library, more like weeks of work. Because the porting over of sheer data isn't that fast, and then you must test each instrument by itself.

And here's the problem you're going to face when it doesn't work: the owner of Chicken Sys --great guy -- will take the name of the file, ask that you send it to him in some format, and then he'll analyze it and perhaps come up with a fix. That takes time. I waited for several months for a pretty basic fix.

After three years with this program, I started to feel like Translator was deemed "close enough" by the company to be released, and now it relies heavily on user feedback for improvement, on a per instrument basis. I understand why this field would demand that.

But I'm a bit saddened that Chicken Sys promises 100% accurate conversions. That simply does not agree with my three years' experience with this product. And hey, I like Translator. I'm glad I have it. It's just that people like you, leperlord, are being lead to buy it with heightened expectations.

"will it simply be a matter of the filters/layers etc...werent translated , so it wont even load , or give an error , or once again just a matter of good ears/aural judgement ."

The answer is, "all of the above." *Most* often, Translator converts the program as best it can and leaves you to play the results. And you need not have a perfect ear to tell that something is wrong, particularly when you look for keyswitches and they're not there, or you move the modwheel doesn't change the sound.

I've never gotten a prompt that says, "Some parameters did not convert." It doesn't give you anything near that.

Lastly, Translator is the single most crash prone program I have ever used in nineteen years of computing. It simply locks, offers some inscrutable prompt, and disappears. Translator on Mac is the only program I have on my Mac that crashes regularly. Its chief benefit is a quick reload. Load, crash, reload, fidget, tweak, crash, reload. Hurray for fast reloads.

My best experiences with Translator came with the Roland, Vitous, and Kurzweil libraries. The simpler the program, the better the conversion.

At this point, leperlord, if you're planning to just convert someone else's library on the sly, you'll get what you pay for. Otherwise, it's best you pick a format and buy it natively. There are better things to do with your musical ability that sweat out issues like this.

Cheers.

Perhaps it is just Opus 1/2 that come this way, but I could have sworn that both versions of the samples come on the same DVDs. So all you need is whatever form the perfomance tool takes on GIGA. So, as far as Opus 1/2 is concerned, there is absolutely no translation required since both versions come together.

I have used Chicken Systems Translator and it is good, but not worth spending the time and risk of more time with several hundred thousand samples.

If you already have a PC, then it is really a no brainer. Run GIGA until you can't put off having a mac anymore, and then get a side license (I believe it is this that allows you to run cross platform VSL without buying it all again). Don't forget, that at this point you have all your hard work in two places, and both will be indispensable.

On the mac side...don't be put off by having one sampler instrument per VSL instrument. It is very logical once you do it, and you can save entire setups as templates. Having separate instruments also means that mixing within logic is easy too.

So a G5 can run 40-50 instruments plus reverbs...*sigh* I can manage about 16-20 before having to freeze down tracks to release CPU resources....ah, one day!

All of the above [:)]

If you already have Cubase and a PC (and it's fast enough) then there is absolutely no point in getting a Mac and Logic just to run samples. I would recommend either Giga or Kontact. If you later decide to buy another computer, you can then use your current PC as a stand alone sampler whether your new pooter is a PC or Mac.

DG