Wow, Finaly some Williams!

I was most impresed with the Schindlers list - oh my, thoso solo strings sounds so Beautifull! Absolutely fabulous, very expressive!
(what articulations You used?)

I love Leias theme a lot and this mockup is very nice, but I miss there some more feeling of "life and space". I listened AB´s Debussy mockup again and again and was again impressed how live it sounds. Original SW recordnings have more "rough" sound - you often hear noises from players, chairs....and this will help this piece a lot. Also string passage from 3:10 sounds a bit messy for my ears, But again - Very nice, Some parts are Great!


Dance macabre - wow! Also great, all fast passages sounds really great. Very nice! [H]

Schindler Solovioline:

I started programming the whole violin solo using only one articulation (perf-leg piano) to get a "realistic performance" playing on my keyboard.
After that I divided the track to different articulations. Mainly performance legato piano / legato forte / and legato portamento.
For this piece I calibrated in my sequenzer piano and forte on the same volume level. So it was possible to switch between piano and forte, and I got all the espressivo difference between piano and forte but not automatically volume changes. Therefor it was also easy to combine the forte portamento also with the piano articulations.
I was a little surprised how well this worked, maybe it's not possible to do this on a solo piece, but with the orchestra in background it was quite easy.
At last I add some extra articulations for a few notes, like dynamic samples, fortepiano, some performance detaches - the soft detaches - which are very similiar to legato, and one performance glissando for a very slow portamento.

We also discussed, if we should add room noise to our mixes, which is ofcourse helpful to achieve more realism. At last we decided to do it the hard way and presenting the samples and mixes more puristic.

best
Herb

... which means that Herb is working on a convincing concept for a legato-audience patch [:D]

/Dietz

I hope he's doing multiple velocities -

p: slight murmur

mf: general confusion

f: heckling

ff: riot

Regarding VSL demos;

One wish to see here on your site is a mockup of Arthur Honegger.
Most of all the "De profundis clamavi" Adagio piece from his Symphony Nr.3 "Liturgique". One of my all time favourite. [:)]

@Rob Elliott said:

[...]
Dietz - great mix on this piece. In most mock-ups the higher the strings go the more it sounds like samples. Where the strings come in high it was a 'close' as I have heard it that high.
[...]

Thanks for the positive feedback, Rob. -

And sorry for being a little bit dense: I have to admit that I don't get your point completely as far as the third sentence is concerned. Is this meant to be a question?

[*-)]: [*-)]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Sorry Dietz - didn't make that too clear. I feel the VL-14 patch (section) by itself is 'thin' the higher it goes. I usually handle that with adding solo violin and/or another libraries section to thicken it up. To my ears it just seems difficult to get a convincing lush, warm sound with Sample strings up high. I will try your EQ ideas as well.

Rob

Thank's for the tip.
I've planned to buy the score of "Pacific 231", the only piece I know a little. If you say that the 3rd symphony is great, I'll change my order.

best
Herb

@William said:

I hope he's doing multiple velocities -

p: slight murmur

mf: general confusion

f: heckling

ff: riot

HA! LOL

best,
John

Dietz,

Totally convincing ambiance in the Mahler. How did you manage that?


Dave Connor

@herb said:

Thank's for the tip.
I've planned to buy the score of "Pacific 231", the only piece I know a little. If you say that the 3rd symphony is great, I'll change my order.

best
Herb

Herb

Speaking of Honeggers third symphony:

In the Coda section in the third movement, "Dona nobis pacem - Andante", there are some really beautiful flautando strings wich concludes with hints of the main themes of the previous movements. there is also a nice cello solo (wish i could hear Rostropovich playing that one [[;)]] ). Yes, I must admit that I am "weak" for flautando strings.

That is why I havent yet decided if I am going to buy Strings Pro Edition, or the Horizon Chamber Strings. Of all your demos on the site, I find the Chamber Strings "Articulation Test" to be the most authentic sounding, and also the "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" demo. The only reason for me to buy the Strings Pro ed. is the flautando samples as these samples is not concluded in the Strings First Ed. or am I wrong ?? And there are no flautandos in the Opus1 either ?

Thanks for the excellent work.

Best
Hansen

Regarding Honneger's 3rd (Adagio) there is also some very nice muted brass. So depending on how far Herb goes into the movement (mutes don't come in for a while) will also depend on how far he's gone developing the muted brass library. [:D]

Great composer with a very unique harmonic language and total command of the orchestra btw.

Dave Connor

Flautando is only included in the Pro Edition String module.

I'll have a look at the muted brass part.

best
Herb

@dpcon said:

Dietz,

Totally convincing ambiance in the Mahler. How did you manage that?

Dave Connor

Thanks for the nice words, Dave.

I've been using three AltiVerbs with AudioEase's IRs from the Vienna Konzerthaus - Großer Saal, actually faking stage-depth with distance to the stage. Strings go to the nearest IR, everything else to the middle position IRs. - For some of the other mixes, I additionally used the most distant position for horns and percussion. Instruments that seem too "near" (harp, piatti and the like) got a dedicated TrueVerb for additional ER-information.

These fakes will soon find an end when we have the MIR up and running. :-]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Thanks Dietz,

Incredibly "live" sound you got on that. I will try that technique. Can't wait for MIR.

I keep hearing that Gigapulse is a big processor hog. Will MIR be more efficient?



Dave Connor

@Dietz said:

Instruments that seem too "near" (harp, piatti and the like) got a dedicated TrueVerb for additional ER-information.

Nice to read a confirmation for an approach that I also re-introduced recently. Nothing bad about the Waves reverbs, just don't use their tails (or direct sound) [[;)]]

Dietz,
You used the same impulse? What parameter(s) did you change for the three busses? Pre-delay only? Or did you also tweak the EQ-curves?

Peter

I've now had time to listen to most of the new demos. There are some very good things there and I think that the whole production team should be congratulated.

I do have a few thoughts which (at the risk of being flamed) I will share:

I think that the layering of Solo Violin in Leia's theme mostly seems to work well. Where it doesn't work is on passages that are high, as I seem to hear too much solo violin, which suddenly makes the whole section seem small.

I tried to approach Schindler's List with an open mind, but I have come to the conclusion that I am never going to like the solo violin. I think that it is not the individual notes that don't work (for me) but the transitions. Part of the problem is that with the use of portamento (which in itself is good) leads to unconvincing string/timbre changes. This can also be a problem with the string section patches as well, but is much more pronounced when there is only one player.

The only real criticism is for the opening of Danse Macabre. I'm afraid that yet again it involves the solo violin...! The patch used for the opening section is totally wrong as it has vibrato. I know that you don't have non vibrato patches (something that would be very useful for the violin section armoury, particulary on fp notes) so I don't really know how you could programme this bit better, but it really doesn't work as it is.

DG

portamento and Schindler:

that's interesting, because I think Perlmann did this exactly to get different timbres. He always performed the first of the two repetitiv intervall changes on the same string (with portamento - it's much easier to play with portamento), the second on 2 different strings (without portamento).
So he does more or less the same we do, avoiding repetitiv sounding passages.


Dance macabre:

Only a few notes of that part passage do have vibrato, and I used them to get more randomness in this repetitiv passage. There are a lot of nonvibrato patches in the soloviolin, and I used all of them, but I wanted more different options.
Personally I realy don't care about such issues. If it sounds convincing to me, it's OK for me.


best
Herb

@herb said:

portamento and Schindler:

that's interesting, because I think Perlmann did this exactly to get different timbres. He always performed the first of the two repetitiv intervall changes on the same string (with portamento - it's much easier to play with portamento), the second on 2 different strings (without portamento).
So he does more or less the same we do, avoiding repetitiv sounding passages.


Dance macabre:

Only a few notes of that part passage do have vibrato, and I used them to get more randomness in this repetitiv passage. There are a lot of nonvibrato patches in the soloviolin, and I used all of them, but I wanted more different options.
Personally I realy don't care about such issues. If it sounds convincing to me, it's OK for me.


best
Herb

Hi Herb

I'm glad that there are non vibrato patches available for solo violin; I haven't really investigated that deeply, but I stand by the fact that the Danse opening is always played with open strings.

Regarding the Williams, you are correct about changing strings for variation of timbre. However, it's one of those things that being a violinist (in the past), I have too much knowledge [:)]

Please don't take any of what I've said as negative criticism, as it's not meant that way; I was just passing on my thoughts.

DG

@Peter Roos said:

[...]
Dietz,
You used the same impulse? What parameter(s) did you change for the three busses? Pre-delay only? Or did you also tweak the EQ-curves?

Peter

AudioEase offers three distances from the Konzerthaus-stage (from an audience-perspective). I abused them im that sense that I looked at them as they were different distances _from_ the audience, i.e. stege-depth. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

I always mix dry- and wet-signal, as not all IRs you find have the actual direct-signal recovered from the impulse. AudioEase keep them (that's why there is the "Mute Direct"-button in AltiVerb), Ernest Cholakis from NumericalSound OTOH skips the direct signal for his IRs (that's why the seem to be so much louder).

The predelay stayed untouched, I relied completely on the sonic signature of the IR. EQ is a must, though - somtimes just subtle enhancements, more often drastic reduction of ugly resonances.

/Dietz

"I have too much knowledge" - DG

It must be tough. I never had that problem myself.