Everyone expects software for free or extremely cheap (except pro software aimed a a specific market) GarageBand comes with samples and loops and is effectively free. As you move from free/cheap software to mid-priced/expensive software you either have to be an enthusiastic amateur or earning your living with the use (or contributory use) of that application.

How many PROFESSIONAL composer/producers are there. Well I think considerably fewer than you might think as a percentage of trades. And whereas Pro photographers may major on Photoshop there are any number of sample libraries and at a guess only 5% of the pro composers out there might be in the market for a VSL type of product.

VSL have created a respected brand and, I would say, are the undisputed leader in the Orchestral Library field but I think if there were 2 or 3 new players join the industry then the financial dynamics would be bad for Pro Sample users.

This is because the extra compettion would lead to a lowering in prices to a point that it wouldn't make financial sense to commit valuable resources to things like customer support, experimental product development (MIR) and esoteric sample development.

So my view is that the global high end sample market is more precarious than it might appear.

Julian

Bravo ! Guy and Cristian for the AP demo...it sound great !

Guy...i realy enjoy the Penderecki style in the Nightmare part of your demo
very creeepy !

Christian...i enjoy your sensual sound of the strings in your demo

you guys make me badly in the need to get the AP

Mephisto [6]

@julian said:

Everyone expects software for free or extremely cheap (except pro software aimed a a specific market) GarageBand comes with samples and loops and is effectively free. As you move from free/cheap software to mid-priced/expensive software you either have to be an enthusiastic amateur or earning your living with the use (or contributory use) of that application.

How many PROFESSIONAL composer/producers are there. Well I think considerably fewer than you might think as a percentage of trades. And whereas Pro photographers may major on Photoshop there are any number of sample libraries and at a guess only 5% of the pro composers out there might be in the market for a VSL type of product.

VSL have created a respected brand and, I would say, are the undisputed leader in the Orchestral Library field but I think if there were 2 or 3 new players join the industry then the financial dynamics would be bad for Pro Sample users.

This is because the extra compettion would lead to a lowering in prices to a point that it wouldn't make financial sense to commit valuable resources to things like customer support, experimental product development (MIR) and esoteric sample development.

So my view is that the global high end sample market is more precarious than it might appear.

Julian

You're probably right.

Julian et al, with respect to your and those who seem to think along these lines in any business scenario, and with respect to your opinion, I must say that I think this kind of pessismism always misses the bigger picture, and is a past oriented view point, always looking at what has been when the big successes in business usually happen out of what has not yet occurred in industry and in life - these are the things that entrapaneurs and intuitive business people foresee instinctively and they succeed based on that instinct, they feel what is around the corner when others are gloomy about what wasn't around the last one instead of realising that the unknown is unknown because prcisely, it is unknown!! It's like a wave in the ocean, when you're surfing, you know one will come but you don't know when or how it will be, but a good and experienced surfer feels the wave and catches it.

I would say the reverse, in fact, that the market is set to continue to expand if not healthily, perhaps exponentially, because more and more low and mid budget productions will be turning to samples and specifically VSL as a way to increase quality while still maintaining budget. This is especially true as tomorrows hardware starts to see yesterdays prices.

Miklos.

Why is he probably right? he he [:D] what are you guys even talking about... [:D]

I think that people will spend whatever they want to on hobbies. Traditionally, I guess, that would not have been sample libraries. However, if people can afford to take flying lessons, or week long holidays that cost more than the Cube, then it is more a matter of what they are prepared to pay for. true, there are many less Pro users than others, but it is the Pro users that want and need most of the enhancements. Where am I going with this? I don't know. I'm just waiting for my dinner to be ready. [:D]

DG

@mpower88 said:

Julian et al, with respect to your and those who seem to think along these lines in any business scenario, and with respect to your opinion, I must say that I think this kind of pessismism always misses the bigger picture, and is a past oriented view point, always looking at what has been when the big successes in business usually happen out of what has not yet occurred in industry and in life - (edit)

It's like a wave in the ocean, when you're surfing, you know one will come but you don't know when or how it will be, but a good and experienced surfer feels the wave and catches it.


Miklos.

I'd say it's like drainage pipes [:D] ...

Recently I did some work on my house and wanted to match the existing cast iron pipes. I had to pay at ten times the cost of plastic to get the job done. Now if there hadn't been a flooding of the market with cheap plastic varieties there would have still been a good number of cast iron pipe manufacturers creating quality at a good price rather than a few specialists at extremely high prices.

I'm sure if VSL did plumbing they'd make cast iron pipes (or at least use them for reverb!)

Julian

@Another User said:

if VSL did plumbing they'd make cast iron pipes (or at least use them for reverb!)

[:D] julian ... what do you think ... we would _sample_ them ... though you'd still need the plumber ... [;)]
christian

@mpower88 said:

Julian et al, with respect to your and those who seem to think along these lines in any business scenario, and with respect to your opinion, I must say that I think this kind of pessismism always misses the bigger picture, and is a past oriented view point, always looking at what has been when the big successes in business usually happen out of what has not yet occurred in industry and in life - (edit)

It's like a wave in the ocean, when you're surfing, you know one will come but you don't know when or how it will be, but a good and experienced surfer feels the wave and catches it.


Miklos.

I'd say it's like drainage pipes [:D] ...

Recently I did some work on my house and wanted to match the existing cast iron pipes. I had to pay at ten times the cost of plastic to get the job done. Now if there hadn't been a flooding of the market with cheap plastic varieties there would have still been a good number of cast iron pipe manufacturers creating quality at a good price rather than a few specialists at extremely high prices.

I'm sure if VSL did plumbing they'd make cast iron pipes (or at least use them for reverb!)

Julian

Actually, China is more responsible for the price of coper going up than anything else... The same goes for all other metals and resources(like oil) simply because of china's booming economy.

@Another User said:

if VSL did plumbing they'd make cast iron pipes (or at least use them for reverb!)

[:D] julian ... what do you think ... we would _sample_ them ... though you'd still need the plumber ... [;)]
christian


Yeh!

the standard edition costs $300 but for the extended (includes the plumber) it's an extra $2000!

Julian

[[:|]] I don't think that makes any point to the original post that basically suggested sample manufacturers aren't making any money... I think the good ones are, those who are opportunistic entrants into the market, probably won't survive because they aren't realistic about their product.

[*-)]:

What exactly is the point of all this is somebody trying to say VSL is not making money or will falter in the future financiallly?? If so, I'll wager an obvious no, and it is in THAT case a silly point in the first place.

Note to self, don't respond to silly posts that start circular go nowhere discussions on forums with anonymous joes... [:)]

Comparing iron pipes to VSL as a market analogy? [8-)]

My common sense says there are TONS of pro composers out there spending money on sample lib and ready to spend more especially as samples are getting better each day and at the end of the line their project becomes much more cost efficient thanks to pro sampling company such as VSL. If it's an investment to buy these lib they will do so.

And it is!

I just realised this was a thread about the demos!!

Well I just came back because I finally had a proper listen to your concerto Guy and I have to say this is where you are certainly at your best, when you are free to write the music in the directions that you want to go, and have fun with it it's so obvious you had fun with this one. Congratulations really excellent and so unique! You are really developing yourself as a significant contributor to compositions not only using VSL but all around and obviously your consummate piano skills as performance and also composer show themselves well here, - this is really showing us mortals what can be done with this library and it's truly ascendant and inspiring to know that the possibilities are very far reaching and deep musically indeed, and we can learn from your example and apply this knowledge of what *can* be done in the most musical sense not just as an immitation of an orchestra but as a tool for pure art itself, and be emboldened (I always wanted to use that word he he) by it for our own writing ventures - to write with a confidence that nothing really holds us back here but our own musical sense of adventure and what limitations we do or do not place upon it (I suggest none!). Also, there is a wonderful use of space here even when apparently the sound is full and that was especially interesting.

All the Best,
Miklos.

[:D]

Hey Christian Kardeis,

The Anaheim demo is amazing... can you share with us what reverb you used? It's especially "present" and really has some depth and life to it.

Kerry

Miklos, just what do you have against Donald Trump and iron pipes? I for one think his hairpiece would make an excellent World Dictator. The Hairpiece would be far better than the dictator America elected by a narrow margin several years ago. Woody Allen made a film about that some time ago I believe. though it featured a nose blown off a dictator.

Also, I am extremely irritated that VSL has chosen to use iron pipes for plumbing instead of sampling them, chromatically, with both hard and medium attack mallets in 6 velocities, with bowed variations. Really, I am a pro and I need those pipes, right now!!! for an important job on an ad sponsored by the American Lavatory Association.

Hi Kerry,

Thanks for your kind words. The Reverb used in the demo was Altiverb with "Wiener Konzerthaus" impulses. I used 5 instances of Altiverb. One for left front, one for left rear, one for right front and one for right rear (just the early reflection part switched on, the reverb tail was switched off) and one instance of altiverb for the main, overall reverb.

Furthermore I used the Processed Percussion a lot.
These samples are already convolved with the impulses VSL recorded in the "Wiener Konzerthaus". So the impulses of Altiverb and the Processed Percussion match perfectly.

The routing is a little tricky but once you´ve done it, it will save you alot of time while mixing.

You can find a good tutorial example how to build this setup on the audioease homepage. the example was done by the well known composer Maarten Spruijt.
He also used VSL samples for his tutorial, because they are recorded rather dry.

hope that helps.

best
christian

@chriskard said:

Hi Kerry,

Thanks for your kind words. The Reverb used in the demo was Altiverb with "Wiener Konzerthaus" impulses. I used 5 instances of Altiverb. One for left front, one for left rear, one for right front and one for right rear (just the early reflection part switched on, the reverb tail was switched off) and one instance of altiverb for the main, overall reverb.

Furthermore I used the Processed Percussion a lot.
These samples are already convolved with the impulses VSL recorded in the "Wiener Konzerthaus". So the impulses of Altiverb and the Processed Percussion match perfectly.

The routing is a little tricky but once you´ve done it, it will save you alot of time while mixing.

You can find a good tutorial example how to build this setup on the audioease homepage. the example was done by the well known composer Maarten Spruijt.
He also used VSL samples for his tutorial, because they are recorded rather dry.

hope that helps.

best
christian

Great post Christian. Are you running Altiverb on PC? Been pleased with it? CPU hungry?

Will ONE licence allow me to run Altiverb on the main Daw and 4 slaves?


Thanks again Christian for any advice your can give.


Rob

The Appassionata Strings sound lovely! Congrats to Herb and his very talented team! How much of the demos are standard vs extended? Does the portamento come with the standard set? (I hope so!) I'm saving my pennies for this one!

All the very best,

Darren

@Rob Elliott said:

Will ONE licence allow me to run Altiverb on the main Daw and 4 slaves?

Nope. 1 licence per PC.