@DG said:

When I looked at the options with a friend a few months ago, there seemed no point in getting an inkjet. No only does the ink run when trombone players spit on the page, but the pages take so long to print that a thousand page run would take for ever.

However, if it is only for non pressurised situations,then I guess that laser is the unnecessarily expensive option.

DG

DG, one must do a bit of research. The ink-run argument is an old one by today's standards. Not all inkjets are the same. Canon's quick drying inks have never run the way other inkjets do-- and if trombone players spit on any page, no matter if it were done by Kalmus or Boosey, the part is already on its way to ruin. Parts also get heavily marked after only a few uses, so replacing parts is also part of the evils of maintaining a library. It's still more cost effective on a good inkjet-- Buy a cheap inkjet and you get yourself into trouble.

For the difference in cost of laser and inkjet, I have also invested in better-than-normal paper to do the printing. Waussau 60-lb cover not only takes and holds the Canon inks extremely well, but the Waussau papers are also quite compatible with photocopier toner. I've never had a problem with inks running.

Inkjets themselves ought not to be blamed wholesale in the interest of distinguishing the misconceptions. Lasers are no better in that regard, and I have used both laser and inkjet-- HP and Canon. I cannot recommend HP or Epson, but the Canon represents a new breed in high standard inkject printing. The wide difference in price and operating costs do not reflect the neglegible differences in quality.

Everyone will suit themselves and their budgets. I only felt that I'd be remiss had I not shared my findings.

I will defer to JWL on the printer issue as he is a top notch pro with some decades of experiance in this area. I print out an occasional lead sheet on my Epson 740 so I'm not really qualified to inform. The printer I suggested is the replacement for an eralier HP model which was suggested to me by a professional copyist but as I said, I'm not really doing anything in this area and will now look at the Canon JWL suggests.

I can advise with a tad of expertise on the proper use of eighth notes however (but only upon a solid contextual reference.)

Don't mean to suggest DG is uninformed in any way only myself.

I bought an old HP Laser Jet 4V. 12 years old, A3, 600 dpi for 200 Euro ($ 250). And now I get perfect scores. Much better than inkjet. 40 and more instruments on one page are no problem.

Alban

If you print scores and orchestra material often, PDF/X and Printing On Demand is the professional and international standard way. Then have it printed in a professional print shop. The worldwide prepress standard for data transfer to the print shop is the PDF/X format, a defined subset of the PDF language. PDF/X restricts the content in a PDF document, prohibiting elements that do not directly serve the purpose of high-quality print production output. This is the reliable delivery of press-ready, high-end b&w and color printing. This makes the process simple and printing addtional orchestra material in professional quality is quick and inexpensive. You will never again turn the paper in you laser or inkjet printer to print the back side and get a bound book.

Here a few links:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/pdf/PDFReference.pdf

http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000124.shtml

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/pdfs/acr6_pdfx_faq.pdf

Here the shop where my printed matter is done:
http://www.gaffuri.ch/

.

I love the comment about spitting trombones. You can of course fairly easily get around this problem by laminating the brass parts. What works for children will surely work for the brass section?

Laminating the wind players is a more revolutionary idea for contemporary composers

.

angelo.

how do you make these pdf/x files.
is it possible in Finale or Sibelius?

JWL, good to know that there are some good Inkjets. Are there any ones that print faster than one page a week? [:D]

You gave some very good advice and then spoilt it by mentioning the name Kalmus. This travesty of a company does not belong in a post that is geared towards music production. [8o|]

DG

@golafs said:

angelo.

how do you make these pdf/x files.
is it possible in Finale or Sibelius?

OSX or XP?

DG

@golafs said:

how do you make these pdf/x files.
is it possible in Finale or Sibelius?

No matter what the application is you use, and I mean not only Finale or Sibelius, the prodeedings are always the same for digital printing and offset printing.

1.1
Export graphics in vector graphics format type Encapsulated PostScript with the extension *.eps. In Sibelius this creates numbered pages exactly as your score is.

1.2
When you decide to have it printed, you could give at this point the *.eps graphics to the digital printer, and he makes the PDF/X.

1.3
Making the PDF/X yourself: Import the numbered score pages with at least 300 dpi into Photoshop, Illustrator, PageMaker, or any other program who permitts you to edit the book you want to export to PDF/X. At this import the vector graphics go thru the screen-process for print.

1.4
If you don't have to edit anything you can load the *.eps pages into Adobe Acrobat, no less then version 6.0.

1.5
Export to PDF/X.

1.6
Open the the PDF/X for controlling. Zoom into the b&w and color graphics and control if there are any imprecise alignment, or misregistration, between colorants. In print, this can produce unwanted visual artifacts such as brightly colored gaps or bands around the edges of printed objects. In high-quality reproduction of color documents, such artifacts are avoided by creating an overlap, called a "trap", between areas of adjacent color. If you find any such quality reductions consult you printer company, or simply give them the exported *.eps data.

1.7
The easiest way. You can export a normal PDF out of any graphic application, including Sibelius. This PDF can be transcoded to PDF/X, by yourself if you have a PDF/X plugin. Doing so, normally you will not see any quality differences in black&white digital printing. Incorporating color graphics, you have to know the color standard and the process of making it print ready.

1.8
The dpi standard of graphics and text in digital print and offset print is 300 dpi. It is said, that down to circa 270 dpi you hardly see a quality reduction. Sometimes graphic companies work at 600 dpi, or require and accept only higher resolution content, sometimes up to 2400 dpi when it is not vector based.

.

sorry for the typos, but editing time is limited.

If you open a PDF, zoom in quite considerably and still see smooth lines you are seeing vector PDF. If the zoom in reveals jaggy lines it is raster PDF or hybrid PDF.

http://www.pdftocad.com/

In my opinion inkjet is not the way to print a score. Even a A4 laser postscript printer (US legal or letter) will produce sharper images, including later enlargement to A3 (tabloid) with a photo copy machine.

.

thanks for the tips! [:D]

@DG said:

JWL, good to know that there are some good Inkjets. Are there any ones that print faster than one page a week? [:D]

You gave some very good advice and then spoilt it by mentioning the name Kalmus. This travesty of a company does not belong in a post that is geared towards music production. [8o|]

DG

Ah, DG-- Kalmus-- another evil of the real world. That's a good reason right there to endeavor mastery of Finale or Sibelius.

One page a week? Hmmm-- is Epson more of a travesty than Kalmus as a suitable thread term? [:D] Actually, Epson is closer to one page a month.

No regrets on the Canon, tho.

@DG said:

JWL, good to know that there are some good Inkjets. Are there any ones that print faster than one page a week? [:D]

You gave some very good advice and then spoilt it by mentioning the name Kalmus. This travesty of a company does not belong in a post that is geared towards music production. [8o|]

DG

Ah, DG-- Kalmus-- another evil of the real world. That's a good reason right there to endeavor mastery of Finale or Sibelius.

One page a week? Hmmm-- is Epson more of a travesty than Kalmus as a suitable thread term? [:D] Actually, Epson is closer to one page a month.

No regrets on the Canon, tho.
I keep thinking that I should get a new printer, as mine is an old (13 years) HP LaserJet 5, but as I don't do that much printing any more and I'm too mean to spend the money, I keep putting it off. I would like an A3 printer, but I think that I probably don't need it, so it's just gear lust. [:(]

DG

@DG said:

JWL, good to know that there are some good Inkjets. Are there any ones that print faster than one page a week? [:D]

You gave some very good advice and then spoilt it by mentioning the name Kalmus. This travesty of a company does not belong in a post that is geared towards music production. [8o|]

DG

Ah, DG-- Kalmus-- another evil of the real world. That's a good reason right there to endeavor mastery of Finale or Sibelius.

One page a week? Hmmm-- is Epson more of a travesty than Kalmus as a suitable thread term? [:D] Actually, Epson is closer to one page a month.

No regrets on the Canon, tho.
I keep thinking that I should get a new printer, as mine is an old (13 years) HP LaserJet 5, but as I don't do that much printing any more and I'm too mean to spend the money, I keep putting it off. I would like an A3 printer, but I think that I probably don't need it, so it's just gear lust. [:(]

DG

Gear lust.

What a love/hate jam that is. I'm in Europe right now, but am wondering if I should stop on my way home from the airport when I get back to the States to pick up a great variety of gear out of pure lust. I already have a ton of new software waiting to be installed-- but gear lust will kill you if you let it!!!

Man, I'm aching to snag a new Rain PC or a pocket full of Mac Minis....

I do the same as mathis. I bring all my MIDI into Sibelius and print using a HP Laserjet 1300, printing on A4 at the best print print settings. You can blow it up to A3 no problem because of the clarity.

I tried using a inkjet and it took me forever. I did an experiment once with my inkjet and the laserjet together as I have sibelius running on 2 different computers. By the time the ink jet had completed 1 1/2 pages in it's best settings, my laser jet had finished 50! And the results from the laser were much crisper and clearer. And when I blew up a page from each to A3, the laserjet was much better. So, it's faster, clearer and produces perfect results when blown up.

@Jonny Mantle said:

I do the same as mathis. I bring all my MIDI into Sibelius and print using a HP Laserjet 1300, printing on A4 at the best print print settings. You can blow it up to A3 no problem because of the clarity.

I tried using a inkjet and it took me forever. I did an experiment once with my inkjet and the laserjet together as I have sibelius running on 2 different computers. By the time the ink jet had completed 1 1/2 pages in it's best settings, my laser jet had finished 50! And the results from the laser were much crisper and clearer. And when I blew up a page from each to A3, the laserjet was much better. So, it's faster, clearer and produces perfect results when blown up.

It must be that healthy Welsh air!!

What inkjet did you use?

[/quote]

It must be that healthy Welsh air!!

What inkjet did you use?[/quote]

And a healthy supply of Leeks!

As unhelpful as this sounds, I can't remember because it eventually popped it's clogs and I got rid of it. It was good one though, and could print up to 2400dpi. Bit pointless because the human eye can't register more than 600dpi anyway, and going higher in dpi only makes a difference if you print in a much larger size than the original object was. So it would be fine for making a passport size photo lok good when printing it the size of a postcard, but made no difference to normal print.

Still, despite this, the laserjet looks clearer and sharper even though it has a lower resolution - even when blown up to A4. And it cost less!

Do I get a prize for the most unhelpful post so far?

@Jonathan Mitchell said:

I love the comment about spitting trombones. You can of course fairly easily get around this problem by laminating the brass parts. What works for children will surely work for the brass section?

I do that with my rock band. When I go into a rehearsal, I take a laminated copy of the songs' score. Prevents me ruining it by jumping round all over it by accident, spilling beer and other general mayhem in the name of rock and roll. Doesn't help if I need to make an amendment though. Then I have to scratch it violently with a black biro.

I wouldn't spit on scores though. That's just nasty - those debauched, anarchic punk rock trombonists! Brass players today, they just don't have the respect that they used to [[;)]] .

@Jonny Mantle said:

and going higher in dpi only makes a difference if you print in a much larger size than the original object was. So it would be fine for making a passport size photo lok good when printing it the size of a postcard, but made no difference to normal print.

That doesn't make sense at all. You'd need a *scan* of higher resolution to be able to enlarge it, the printer can't do anything about it.