I don't know who is more correct on this debate. The only way to resolve this would be to hear the same people do this same piece with VSL samples. However I tend to agree with Craig Sharmat in that the useage of samples is often the cause of either a good or bad sound. This demo is very short, and it is easier to do something short that sounds good than an entire symphony.

Nevertheless, on this demo the acoustic dynamic range is perfect, the musical dynamics are extremely well done, the writing is nicely contrapuntal (rather than homophonic - the worst way to write for strings) and the timbres of the original recordings seem to come across better in the mix than any other samples I've heard. And obviously if VSL does more string recordings it will be a great thing.

I know that I do not purposely write to the strengths of the library I am demoing. If a library was that restrictive I would not waste my time. I will cover up problems as I go along if they occur, or edit to make the library do what I want, and I believe Thomas does the same thing. Again, I write for myself, I figure that will also create the best demo. the music is first and 2nd, the library is just the vehicle.

All interesting comments. Someone over on NS asked TJ to post the MIDI file for the piece, wouldn't it be a great idea for someone to take the same composition and play it through i) VSL Pro, ii) VSL VI (when its out [[;)]] ) iii) EWQLSO and maybe even one or more of the other's.

It would be useful to do a "dry" run through and then finetune each piece to meet each libraries strenghts and cover its weaknesses. A lot of the realism seems also to be from the ambient hall the samples were recorded in.

Also, as I believe was mentioned on NS. these samples were recorded for a specific purpose/composition - the sampled stuff will not be generic enough to meet other needs. That I guess is the joy of a private library...

Guess we'll have to see if TJ posts that MIDI....

timkiel,

these samples were not made made for a composition. The midi file would be of some use but it would have to be tweaked for each lib and really the best person to do this would be TJ, and I know he couldn't be bothered. BTW most of the hall you hear was added in later.

I have to agree with Rob.

TJ's work doing demos in the other libraries is great, but doesn't sound like this "private collection."

TH (JMHO)

Personally I'm going with Craig on this one. All else being equal sample-wise in the end the tie breaker is going to be the writing and programming chops.

Guys, i own the same library, and yes it is a different sound, and it is good, but it is the smallest denominator. You can go looking for the holy grail, but the only real place to find it is within.

I'll drink to that.

Take the solo cello example.... thats not just writing chops. Thats an awesome full, warm and expressivesound.

@Rob Elliott said:

You worked with Thomas on Epic Horns and I bet those sales were through the roof!! Develop something like this or even better and it will simply be your biggest selling library to date.

Doesn't Thomas work for EW? If so, that could be a bit of a problem.

Lee Blaske

Hi Rob,

So is are these samples from the East West Sampled Orchestra?

Also, how do the Guitarrian Strings sound in your opinions......

-B

NO...he say 100% custom...... [[:|]]

@dunk187 said:

Hi Rob,

So is are these samples from the East West Sampled Orchestra?

Also, how do the Guitarrian Strings sound in your opinions......

-B

Yes - TJ said 100% custom PLUS his own K2 (scripting). Sounds like that pushed it over the top for Thomas. Sounds like that is the case BUT - take one note of the cello solo and section demos - and Oh that tone [[:|]] [:D]

I have K2 update on its way - time to become a 'tweak head' [:)]

Rob

@dunk187 said:

Hi Rob,

So is are these samples from the East West Sampled Orchestra?

Also, how do the Guitarrian Strings sound in your opinions......

-B

Yes - TJ said 100% custom PLUS his own K2 (scripting). Sounds like that pushed it over the top for Thomas.

Rob

100% custum ? could you tell us more ? did he record himself an entire string orchestra ? that would cost him a lot of money

All I know is taken from this thread


http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=370140#post370140


Rob

thanks Rob, the explanation is here
http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41116&page=6

After intense listening to Thomas J's solo cello with the K2 script on NS I believe that I will need to rethink everything that I thought I knew about sampling and libraries.

Here's another vote for Thomas J.

I hear you Bruce. It does change the way we look at samples and just 'settling' for what is commercially available.

I am not a tweak head - but without this type of sound and control offered from the major developers I may just be motivated to become one.

I think the new VI is working towards this same objective - it is just (in Thomas' demos) the obvious absence of the typcial string sample 'sterile, brittle' sound that is so darn noticable in just about every demo available. I wish I could articulate what it is about this sound other than it is 'alive'.

Herb and co. - I can imagine you have watched this thread and the one on NS. Care to comment? Your impression of what Thomas has been able to achieve with the 'scripting', tone of his samples?

Many thanks.

Rob

Thinking about Herb, it must be difficult to keep a direction without any doubt,
I'm dreaming about an inteligent VSL package that would be light, a few gigs, let say less than 100 gig, that would combine real samples and some script.
Maintaining focused on their goal is the must difficult, there may be a lot of different mind and opinion inside the VSL team, I imagine the reunion at night that are long but so exciting. Those guys are developping our tools and providing us the key to achieve our musical intentions.

@Laurent said:

100% custum ? could you tell us more ? did he record himself an entire string orchestra ? that would cost him a lot of money

Yes its 100% custom, yes and yes.