Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

182,061 users have contributed to 42,201 threads and 254,657 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 8 new post(s) and 41 new user(s).

  • Now the dust has settled......

    So, now the dust has settled, and the bulk of the 'new members' have gone back to their own software companies (Just kidding), i've gleaned the following out of the last three days.

    The VI is outstanding, and contrary to what's been said, the standard edition libraries are custom built for the VI, not upgrades.

    The extended libraries are far larger than standard representing a real bonus for users who can take advantage of the VIP offer.

    Those with Pro editions are actually the real winners. They get to unlock all that extended material for about 35 Euros a volume. I calculate that as about 350 Euros vs 5000 Euros or so.

    Seems a good deal.

    Regards,

    Alex.

  • It really has been an extrordinary few days - and it may well be when the discount calulator is up and running (and partiuclarly if VSL will change their pricing plan) that we are in for several more extraordinary days.

    I've been quite shocked by the anger and rudeness of some posters. It's felt at times like people have deliberatley been trying to wreck the launch. I would not be surprised if there have been elements of industrial sabotage going on here. And the shameless greed of some people.

    There have also been some very well reasoned posters I'm thinking of the likes of ed hamilton here and yourself Alex and also Bruce Richardson over on NorthernSounds (and others of course) who have been islands of sanity in the frenzied seas.

    VSL is more than just a company trying to make a profit - they are artists and innovators who clearly work their collective butts off for their shared vision on top of which they are to a man (and woman Ms Watson) helpful, friendly decent people with the patients of saints to put up with the crap that's been flung at them.

    there is no doubt this launch is a huge breakthru and VSL is way way ahead of the competition. I so look forward to the music we can make with the Cube and sharing the exiting times ahead - rock on VSL you do a huge service to music.

    And that even when there's been no mention of a Euphonium in the launch anywhere!

  • Hermitage said "Those with Pro editions are actually the real winners"
    Should they also aquire all the Horizon not included into the Pro Edition too ?
    CHAMBER STRINGS
    SOLO STRINGS
    EPIC HORNS
    FRENCH OBOE
    WOODWIND ENSEMBLE

    I don't think they get the included for free for the upgraders

  • last edited
    last edited

    @DaveTubaKing said:

    And that even when there's been no mention of a Euphonium in the launch anywhere!
    heheh... I hardly know what a Euphonium is and I was eaglerly waiting to see if it was included due to your campaigning.

    I agree, that there have been some rude, and also highly suspicious one time postings going on.

  • Dave,
    I have to admire your tenacity! And for what it's worth, i worked with several fine euphonium players in earlier years, who brought the instrument to life. It's a lovely tone, and played well is extremely adaptable in most ensembles.

    (I once wrote a euphonium part in a eight piece, because the bassoon player was ill. I have to say it sounded glorious, and the player, Jim Wilson, who passed away a little while ago, played it with a great deal of understanding considering the part was for bassoon in the first place. The other players wanted him to stay!)

    I have little doubt given the ever expanding VSL library that a Euphonium will turn up in the grand scheme of things.

    Laurent.
    While i read what you've written carefully, i will be frank with you. The part that went missing in much of the discussion (and rubbish) over the weekend was the inclusion of the VI.
    It may be that some have become a little blase about VST/AU instruments as there are more and more on the market, but the VI is a significant addition to the new cube package.
    So it's not just a case of 'upgrading' and whose got which package, but the means (at last) to bring the library to life in a work efficient and highly creative way. I've watched the videos a few times now, and i think the impact of this fine, cutting edge instrument got lost in the morass of accusation and greed.

    It is a masterful addition to the VSL portfolio, and i don't think, given the price of the new packages (ten volumes) that the 'percentage' breakdown of 24bit samples and VI is being seen as correct. It was as if the VI was a minor addition, and that's certainly not the case. Indeed, every time i mentioned it, someone would jump in and try and dismiss the VI as little more than a plugin, and it is certainly not just a plugin. I think the reactions were a mix of envy and fear, but you must draw your own conclusions about the motives of the most strident objectors.

    So while i respect and defend your right to ask questions, i cannot agree with your premise that the Cube is 'just an upgrade' , and should be sold as such. And, in reality, the standard edition meets the criteria that VSL stated.
    'You will never pay for for the same sample twice.'
    It's true.
    The 24bit remapped samples are hardly the same samples as 16bit unmapped (or alternately mapped). More fine tuning, new structure to fit with the VI etc.
    And most of all, each volume is sold seperately with VI to handle and manage the content.
    It's up to you if think the cost of the new samples are more important than the VI, but i have to say IMHO, the VI is the real genius in these volumes, and worth as much if not more than the samples.

    I guess it's a matter of perspective.

    Regards,

    Alex.

  • Interesting about the thought of some new users trying to sabotage the launch. There is a thread over on the EW forum where Doug trashes the whole VSL library and ethos. Sounds like he's running scared [:D]

    DG

  • last edited
    last edited

    @DG said:

    Interesting about the thought of some new users trying to sabotage the launch. There is a thread over on the EW forum where Doug trashes the whole VSL library and ethos.
    DG


    Yeas - I spotted that one before it got locked down. I was surprised to say the least.

  • last edited
    last edited

    @DG said:

    Interesting about the thought of some new users trying to sabotage the launch. There is a thread over on the EW forum where Doug trashes the whole VSL library and ethos. Sounds like he's running scared [:D]

    DG


    OOOH!? link? [:D]

  • Its really not that interesting....

    http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386">http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386

  • last edited
    last edited

    @timkiel said:

    Its really not that interesting....

    http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386">http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386


    Hmmm - it's less interesting on second reading that's for sure. One of the post's has been deleted.

  • last edited
    last edited

    @timkiel said:

    Its really not that interesting....

    http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386">http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386

    Yer but you just gotta love Doug Rogers freudian slip in his post "As Nick mentioned earlier in this threat..." you can see how his mind was working [:D]

  • last edited
    last edited

    @DaveTubaKing said:

    Yer but you just gotta love Doug Rogers freudian slip in his post "As Nick mentioned earlier in this threat..." you can see how his mind was working [:D]
    I read the threaD but I didn't notice that. [:D] It's actually quite interesting. The EWQLSO ProXP was supposed to be released last summer but then there was the hard drive failure issue and the library was delayed for months. Just after they finally get ProXP out VSL comes out with the Cube and 35 percent discount. A couple of days passes and Sounds Online has a sale of 35 percent including the Choirs, RA and other libraries that wasn't supposed to be discounted this year. But yeah. I've seen too much science fiction.

  • Well, Doug (on the Soundsonline forum) is not completely fair or accurate in his reply IMO because he calls the SC expensive but skips over the discounts available to current VSL owners. Also, he disses SC as making things "more complicated" - IMO the SC makes things vastly easier. And January is certainly close enough as a release date.

    I personally have EWQLSO Gold and the XP and it's a great sound, but hey, I had to wait over a year for it [8-)] . If handling improvements are on the way for EWQLSO, great, I never liked using the Kontakt interface even though it's enormously powerful.

    EastWest support has improved....the expansion has a good manual at last; and sonically their products are great, but "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" [[;)]]

    Anyway, as they say over here "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschaeft" (competition livens up the business) and over there: "if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" .... [:D]

    Finally, the Users are starting to get some serious TOOLS here [:D] !!!!!!#


    Nigel

    PS Rino_how am I doing [H] ?

  • last edited
    last edited

    @Nigel Watson said:

    Well, Doug (on the Soundsonline forum) is not completely fair or accurate in his reply IMO because he calls the SC expensive but skips over the discounts available to current VSL owners. Also, he disses SC as making things "more complicated" - IMO the SC makes things vastly easier. And January is certainly close enough as a release date.

    Nigel

    PS Rino_how am I doing [H] ?


    As I mentioned, there were so many inaccuracies in most of the statements that it was obvious that he was running scared. Personally I find his comments shameful and I can't imagine any other developer behaving like that. Or maybe I just want to believe the best of people [:(]

  • I don't own East West's Symphonic attempt...I don't like Doug R...BUT

    I have to say...he is right about most things...the polyphony/usability/Ram limit/insane update price/ Roomsound on instruments...

    he hasn't done a better approach with his own library, as it sounds like cheese...but his criticizm is spot on !!

    Here is a discount for you...our library would really cost $12,000 BUT if you are VIP and own everything we have ever made (and have spent 10G's already on us)...we sell you the library for $5000...huh, great deal...amazing discount !!

  • last edited
    last edited

    @Thor said:

    I have to say...he is right about most things...the polyphony/usability/Ram limit/insane update price/ Roomsound on instruments...

    Polyphony...64 stereo voices per instance. Since the VIs are not multitimbral...how often do you reach 64 simultaneous stereo voices on one instrument at any given time.We're not talking pianos here. If VSL decides to go for pianos and the likes I'm sure we'll see another voice limit as well.

    Ram limit... didn't they say a 64kB preload buffer. That's definitely on par with any other software sampler today. All other samplers are subject to the exact same OS induced memory limits including Kontakt/Kompakt.

    Usability...this is highly subjective of course, but for me to be able to play a line and get all articulation switches automatically would be heaven. I have a really hard time to understand why this would be destructive to the workflow.

    Room sound...matter of taste obviously. Personally I prefer the VSL way, but that's me.

    /Mattias

  • Ram limit...watch the video...the VA perf took up 450MB of RAM -> do the math for when you have an entire Orch template loaded in...

    "Usability...this is highly subjective of course, but for me to be able to play a line and get all articulation switches automatically would be heaven. I have a really hard time to understand why this would be destructive to the workflow. "

    Usability as in, how much loading in and out do I have to deal with if every patch is huge...imagine a big orch cue...and you switch from cue to cue...everytime you have to load in the entire palette ...like doug said, who has time for that ?
    With the EXS ...samples that you share between session don't have to be loaded in...so switching happens in matters of seconds...
    If you sit around with plenty of time, of course its not an issue...you dial up ONE instrument..play it in, use the RAM managment and move on to the next Instrument...etc...but that's not how you work when you compose. That's how you work when you realize a written out score in to midi...the VI will be great for Academics...teaching Orchestration and such...

    Room sound...its not a matter of taste, its a fact - its there ! It's a matter of taste if you like it or not...but its there. At this point I have found EQ and reverb settings to deal with it but it can be annoying - It all depends on how critical you are and much exposure you have with real sounding orchestras...sometimes when you work for hours on your midi mockup you think _ wow THIS SOUNDS REAL...until you A/B it with the real thing...and you start crying...
    its tough to judge this kind of stuff out of context...I have heard mockups done with the old Roland samples that sounded great...until you heard the recording of the real orchestra and you go "Ahh,...that's how it really sounds.."

    I don't know if this makes any sense to you.

    I think I will withdraw from these discussions now....too complex, too many variables, too many opinions...in the end everybody has to decide on their own of they want to cough up $6G's for 500GB of sounds which they will only be able to use together if they have multiple machines...

    I know I will wait ...

  • last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    think I will withdraw from these discussions now....too complex, too many variables, too many opinions...in the end everybody has to decide on their own of they want to cough up $6G's for 500GB of sounds which they will only be able to use together if they have multiple machines...


    Most user have multiple machines anyway, and as i understand it this is the case for other large sample libraries too. In fact, according to the information we've been given so far, VSL's VI will give the single machine/external hard drive users a great chance to hear everything, without having to freeze the house, or throw the pc in the fridge. The Romtimiser enables a lot more to be heard without dropout, and with auto articulation you get it done in a vastly reduced time, freeing up more musically creative ideas and the chance to get them in quick before they dissapear.

    You've consistently ignored all the facts and cherry picked the ones that old Uncle Doug would be proud of.

    Objectively speaking of course.

    Alex.

  • Ram limit... Sure 450MB is a lot, but we're going into a 64-bit world... If the loading process is as fast as the VSL people say it is there are possibilities... Another idea. Let's say if the VI automatically could disable the memory optimization when a corresponding midi track was armed. This would make the entire instrument available for every change. When disarming the track is should of course turn on optimization again automatically. This way only one full instrument would have to stay fully loaded at any given time. What I'm trying to say is that we know too little about the functionality at the moment to dismiss it. The only thing we really can say is that it looks and sounds great.

    Usability...yup, the load time is a potential problem no doubt. As the VIs use a proprietary file format and know everything about every single sample that is to be loaded they have an excellent opportunity to gain performance on these types of operations. Time will tell. The load time issue when switching between cues is equally there with the other Kompakt-based product Doug likes better [[:)]] unless you're running it standalone or in a standalone host on a slave machine. On the other hand you can do the very same with VI. The midi programming will be way faster though.

    Room sound...of course it's there and I actually think that's a good thing as recording the instruments completely dry would have ruined the sound. The room is just not as dominating as if the samples were recorded in a concert hall. For me the small room gives more possibilities as I'm also using VSL for other things like pop etc where a concert hall ambience just wouldn't work as well (In My Very Humble Opinion). [[:)]]

    We're both still just speculating (just like doug btw...except for the fact that he quite possibly has another purpose for dissing VSL of course).

    /Mattias

  • last edited
    last edited

    @Mattias Henningson said:


    Room sound...of course it's there and I actually think that's a good thing as recording the instruments completely dry would have ruined the sound. The room is just not as dominating as if the samples were recorded in a concert hall. For me the small room gives more possibilities as I'm also using VSL for other things like pop etc where a concert hall ambience just wouldn't work as well (In My Very Humble Opinion). [:)]

    /Mattias


    Actually this was the selling point for me. When a sample is recorded in a reverberant acoustic then that is the sound you will always get. What I like about VSL is that I can make it sound big, small, reverby (is that a word?) or dry. It's up to me.

    DG