@timkiel said:

Its really not that interesting....

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386">http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2386

Yer but you just gotta love Doug Rogers freudian slip in his post "As Nick mentioned earlier in this threat..." you can see how his mind was working [:D]

@DaveTubaKing said:

Yer but you just gotta love Doug Rogers freudian slip in his post "As Nick mentioned earlier in this threat..." you can see how his mind was working [:D]

I read the threaD but I didn't notice that. [:D] It's actually quite interesting. The EWQLSO ProXP was supposed to be released last summer but then there was the hard drive failure issue and the library was delayed for months. Just after they finally get ProXP out VSL comes out with the Cube and 35 percent discount. A couple of days passes and Sounds Online has a sale of 35 percent including the Choirs, RA and other libraries that wasn't supposed to be discounted this year. But yeah. I've seen too much science fiction.

Well, Doug (on the Soundsonline forum) is not completely fair or accurate in his reply IMO because he calls the SC expensive but skips over the discounts available to current VSL owners. Also, he disses SC as making things "more complicated" - IMO the SC makes things vastly easier. And January is certainly close enough as a release date.

I personally have EWQLSO Gold and the XP and it's a great sound, but hey, I had to wait over a year for it [8-)] . If handling improvements are on the way for EWQLSO, great, I never liked using the Kontakt interface even though it's enormously powerful.

EastWest support has improved....the expansion has a good manual at last; and sonically their products are great, but "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" [[;)]]

Anyway, as they say over here "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschaeft" (competition livens up the business) and over there: "if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" .... [:D]

Finally, the Users are starting to get some serious TOOLS here [:D] !!!!!!#


Nigel

PS Rino_how am I doing [H] ?

@Nigel Watson said:

Well, Doug (on the Soundsonline forum) is not completely fair or accurate in his reply IMO because he calls the SC expensive but skips over the discounts available to current VSL owners. Also, he disses SC as making things "more complicated" - IMO the SC makes things vastly easier. And January is certainly close enough as a release date.

Nigel

PS Rino_how am I doing [H] ?

As I mentioned, there were so many inaccuracies in most of the statements that it was obvious that he was running scared. Personally I find his comments shameful and I can't imagine any other developer behaving like that. Or maybe I just want to believe the best of people [:(]

I don't own East West's Symphonic attempt...I don't like Doug R...BUT

I have to say...he is right about most things...the polyphony/usability/Ram limit/insane update price/ Roomsound on instruments...

he hasn't done a better approach with his own library, as it sounds like cheese...but his criticizm is spot on !!

Here is a discount for you...our library would really cost $12,000 BUT if you are VIP and own everything we have ever made (and have spent 10G's already on us)...we sell you the library for $5000...huh, great deal...amazing discount !!

@Thor said:

I have to say...he is right about most things...the polyphony/usability/Ram limit/insane update price/ Roomsound on instruments...

Polyphony...64 stereo voices per instance. Since the VIs are not multitimbral...how often do you reach 64 simultaneous stereo voices on one instrument at any given time.We're not talking pianos here. If VSL decides to go for pianos and the likes I'm sure we'll see another voice limit as well.

Ram limit... didn't they say a 64kB preload buffer. That's definitely on par with any other software sampler today. All other samplers are subject to the exact same OS induced memory limits including Kontakt/Kompakt.

Usability...this is highly subjective of course, but for me to be able to play a line and get all articulation switches automatically would be heaven. I have a really hard time to understand why this would be destructive to the workflow.

Room sound...matter of taste obviously. Personally I prefer the VSL way, but that's me.

/Mattias

Ram limit...watch the video...the VA perf took up 450MB of RAM -> do the math for when you have an entire Orch template loaded in...

"Usability...this is highly subjective of course, but for me to be able to play a line and get all articulation switches automatically would be heaven. I have a really hard time to understand why this would be destructive to the workflow. "

Usability as in, how much loading in and out do I have to deal with if every patch is huge...imagine a big orch cue...and you switch from cue to cue...everytime you have to load in the entire palette ...like doug said, who has time for that ?
With the EXS ...samples that you share between session don't have to be loaded in...so switching happens in matters of seconds...
If you sit around with plenty of time, of course its not an issue...you dial up ONE instrument..play it in, use the RAM managment and move on to the next Instrument...etc...but that's not how you work when you compose. That's how you work when you realize a written out score in to midi...the VI will be great for Academics...teaching Orchestration and such...

Room sound...its not a matter of taste, its a fact - its there ! It's a matter of taste if you like it or not...but its there. At this point I have found EQ and reverb settings to deal with it but it can be annoying - It all depends on how critical you are and much exposure you have with real sounding orchestras...sometimes when you work for hours on your midi mockup you think _ wow THIS SOUNDS REAL...until you A/B it with the real thing...and you start crying...
its tough to judge this kind of stuff out of context...I have heard mockups done with the old Roland samples that sounded great...until you heard the recording of the real orchestra and you go "Ahh,...that's how it really sounds.."

I don't know if this makes any sense to you.

I think I will withdraw from these discussions now....too complex, too many variables, too many opinions...in the end everybody has to decide on their own of they want to cough up $6G's for 500GB of sounds which they will only be able to use together if they have multiple machines...

I know I will wait ...

@Another User said:

think I will withdraw from these discussions now....too complex, too many variables, too many opinions...in the end everybody has to decide on their own of they want to cough up $6G's for 500GB of sounds which they will only be able to use together if they have multiple machines...

Most user have multiple machines anyway, and as i understand it this is the case for other large sample libraries too. In fact, according to the information we've been given so far, VSL's VI will give the single machine/external hard drive users a great chance to hear everything, without having to freeze the house, or throw the pc in the fridge. The Romtimiser enables a lot more to be heard without dropout, and with auto articulation you get it done in a vastly reduced time, freeing up more musically creative ideas and the chance to get them in quick before they dissapear.

You've consistently ignored all the facts and cherry picked the ones that old Uncle Doug would be proud of.

Objectively speaking of course.

Alex.

Ram limit... Sure 450MB is a lot, but we're going into a 64-bit world... If the loading process is as fast as the VSL people say it is there are possibilities... Another idea. Let's say if the VI automatically could disable the memory optimization when a corresponding midi track was armed. This would make the entire instrument available for every change. When disarming the track is should of course turn on optimization again automatically. This way only one full instrument would have to stay fully loaded at any given time. What I'm trying to say is that we know too little about the functionality at the moment to dismiss it. The only thing we really can say is that it looks and sounds great.

Usability...yup, the load time is a potential problem no doubt. As the VIs use a proprietary file format and know everything about every single sample that is to be loaded they have an excellent opportunity to gain performance on these types of operations. Time will tell. The load time issue when switching between cues is equally there with the other Kompakt-based product Doug likes better [[:)]] unless you're running it standalone or in a standalone host on a slave machine. On the other hand you can do the very same with VI. The midi programming will be way faster though.

Room sound...of course it's there and I actually think that's a good thing as recording the instruments completely dry would have ruined the sound. The room is just not as dominating as if the samples were recorded in a concert hall. For me the small room gives more possibilities as I'm also using VSL for other things like pop etc where a concert hall ambience just wouldn't work as well (In My Very Humble Opinion). [[:)]]

We're both still just speculating (just like doug btw...except for the fact that he quite possibly has another purpose for dissing VSL of course).

/Mattias

@Mattias Henningson said:

Room sound...of course it's there and I actually think that's a good thing as recording the instruments completely dry would have ruined the sound. The room is just not as dominating as if the samples were recorded in a concert hall. For me the small room gives more possibilities as I'm also using VSL for other things like pop etc where a concert hall ambience just wouldn't work as well (In My Very Humble Opinion). [:)]

/Mattias

Actually this was the selling point for me. When a sample is recorded in a reverberant acoustic then that is the sound you will always get. What I like about VSL is that I can make it sound big, small, reverby (is that a word?) or dry. It's up to me.

DG

@DG said:

reverby (is that a word?)

Definitely. Especially since Alex just created romtimised and unromtimised [:)]

/Mattias

... which leads us to other possibilties like "ramptimise", too! [:D]

@Thor said:

Room sound...its not a matter of taste, its a fact - its there ! It's a matter of taste if you like it or not...but its there. At this point I have found EQ and reverb settings to deal with it but it can be annoying

if you're concerned about room sound, then EWQLSO would certainly not be for you - it's bigger, much bigger and it stops me from getting the more intimate sounds I need at times for more modern scores. Whereas, with Altiverb etc. we are able to place VSL in any space we choose.

So, mighty Thor, tell us how I should eliminate the room sound from QLSO?

You must have a 'tweak' for that? [[;)]]

@cwillsher said:

So, mighty Thor, tell us how I should eliminate the room sound from QLSO?
You must have a 'tweak' for that? [[;)]]

Which one was mighty Thor - the tweakhead or the dickhead? In all this excitement, I forget how many shots I fired.

Spartacus.

Check your weapon!

Regards,


Alex.

[H]

@Mattias Henningson said:

Another idea. Let's say if the VI automatically could disable the memory optimization when a corresponding midi track was armed. This would make the entire instrument available for every change. When disarming the track is should of course turn on optimization again automatically. This way only one full instrument would have to stay fully loaded at any given time./Mattias

Briliant idea which I hope we see sooner rather than later.

@Thor said:

Room sound...its not a matter of taste, its a fact - its there ! It's a matter of taste if you like it or not...but its there. At this point I have found EQ and reverb settings to deal with it but it can be annoying - It all depends on how critical you are and much exposure you have with real sounding orchestras...sometimes when you work for hours on your midi mockup you think _ wow THIS SOUNDS REAL...until you A/B it with the real thing...and you start crying...
its tough to judge this kind of stuff out of context...I have heard mockups done with the old Roland samples that sounded great...until you heard the recording of the real orchestra and you go "Ahh,...that's how it really sounds.."

I don't know if this makes any sense to you.

Makes sense to me. Trouble is, in a different way. Thing i like about VSL IS the sound. The precision is extraordinary. And the room aspect of the sound is for me, the best of both worlds. The ability to manipulate tjhe aural picture is far wider in scope dependant on what you want than anything else, and with the arrival of MIR, the combination will give us a new dimension in control.
This is personal taste of course, and i noticed in another post the inevitable comparison between VSL and that 'other' library that is touted to be near the same league. For me it's not, and never will be. VSL's recording sense is precise, accurate, and with the room aspect, almost infintely variable.
'
For me, the 'sound' of that other' library is more akin to a belligerently psychotic hamster being lowered kicking and screaming into an empty 44 gallon drum.

There's just no comparison.

Regards,

Alex.

[H]

@hermitage59 said:

Spartacus.
Check your weapon!
Regards,
Alex.
[H]

Sorry - that was Dirty Harry actually. Right State - wrong city. [:O]ops: [:'(]

Mighty Thor is leaving out the main point concerning room tone in VSL vs. EW - of course VSL has room tone since it is physically impossible not to, however it is a minimized or dry one, which can be covered or altered by reverb. Unlike EW which has it as a main feature and is "Frozen" within it..

@cwillsher said:

So, mighty Thor, tell us how I should eliminate the room sound from QLSO?
You must have a 'tweak' for that? [[;)]]

Which one was mighty Thor - the tweakhead or the dickhead? In all this excitement, I forget how many shots I fired.

#1 Tweakhead or Dickhead ? Can I be both PaulyBoy ? I guess since I am critical that would make me a dickhead...sounds like you should just buy the upgrade and be happy...

#2 I don't own QLSO because I think the sound sucks...but what Doug (again I am not a fan of his, he is a dickhead just like myself) said in his forum was very spot on, if you like it or not.

#3 I am happy that Pauly works on projects that require dry Orchestras ...good for you ! When I use Orchestras I usually try to make them sound like...ah...AN ORCHESTRA and I don't think I have yet to be asked to deliver an Orchestra with a Livingroom as a space - I bet you that most of you use Altiverb Concertgebouw or similar Reverbs everytime you work , so why not have a nice roomsound within the sample - trust me, a big part of the warm orchestra sound (that vsl is missing) has to do with the Hall its recorded in and you cannot make that up afterwards !!! If you can - post a demo - I haven't heard one on this forum.