Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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In the past 24 hours, we have 4 new thread(s), 18 new post(s) and 66 new user(s).

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  • J
    J

     Hi Christian, Herb,

    You are absolutely right to defend your intellectual property however the "lost" dongle issue has been raised a number of times so is obviously an issue that preys on peoples minds. The most likely chance of a dongle going missing in pro circles is the visit to a large sound stage for an orchestral or other recording where the dongle is required for the session.

    In a lot of these cases the rigging and striking of equipment is carried out by the studio - in the past I've had leads and bits and pieces go missing - almost certainly not through theft but just things being put in the wrong place.

    Yes, for something worth such a lot (in my case probablly approaching 5 figures) the dongle should be kept somewhere close to hand (insert and twist!) but then again a large orchestral recording can be a pressured environment.

    I'm not sure all insurance policies would give such a blanket requirement and if they did the resultant premium would be considerable and I doubt good value for money and in the case of loss rather than theft the insurance company would be a hard nut to crack.

    I do think the Vienna Dongle is a little different from most music related dongles in that it can end up carrying an immense value of licenses.

    I don't know the technical possibilities but I for one would be happy to accept a modification to my installation that required my computer "sniffing " at the VSL server once a month to revalidate the installed packages (as distinct from the dongle itself) if this meant  I did not worry about loosing the dongle. This or any other solution to protect our VSL investment would certainly be of interst to many.

    Regards

    Julian 
  • D
    D

    Hm then it looks like I better put inssurance  on it if I can when I get it and keep it somewhere I can find it ot someting because I'm really afraid something stupid might happen... 
  • C
    C
    It was never my intention to harm the Vienna Instrument user community by posting the offer. I was not aware this was a special "favour" and it would be unfortunate if future credible replacement problems were to be harmed by this action. Most of us are honest people in a very crazy and mobile business who sometimes simply lose things. I appreciate the hard work the VSL puts into this fine collection and I understand the need for protection of this intellectual property, but problems do arise. The good news for us on my end is that we tore the entire studio apart and finally found the dongle. It somehow got buried but it has now, after three weeks, been retrieved. From now on, now that the difficulty of replacement has been brought clearly to our attention, the key will be, when not in use and being transported, in a box strapped to the computer. Given the replacement issues, any future additions to this license will be carefully evaluated and possibly rejected due to the potential substantial loss of value.
  • C
    C
    Julian - Good idea regarding a computer tagging the VSL website once a month to revalidate the license. Perhaps the license can have a 30 day clock that needs to be "reset" by VSL. The VSL server could verify not only the product but the machine (s) used. There may be some issues when a computer is changed or upgraded, but I think this could be solved. ~Charles
  • P
    P
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    @herb said:

    The license is the product.

    The key holds the license.

    If you loose the key you lost the product.

    It's the same as if you have lost your car.

    You won't get a new car from Ford, Merceds etc.

    Maybe you get money from your assurance, if you have one.

    We cannot control if you have sold or lost your key, therefor we cannot offer you  new products/licenses for free.

    If we would do that, the amount of "lost" keys" would increase dramatically.

    best

    Herb

    Hello Herb,

    well, I am glad you bring up that comparison yourself!

    If it was really applicable to the full extend, then we could easily sell our

    license - just as simple as I could sell my Mercedes [;)]

    Btw, I still believe the restriction to prevent selling a license is invalid in Germany

    anyway, in particular if a dongle is involved. Many companies, including Microsoft

    and other biggies are trying to prevent resale of licenses, most of the time without

    success.

    Now I am afraid Volkswagen and Mercedes will introduce such restrictions too.

    You wouldn't own the car anymore, just the license to use it! Permission to get it

    fixed, if it breaks down, would be available for an extra fee, if desired.

    Damn, that will push sales!

    Sorry, really couldn't resist on this one...

    The main problem however is, I do neither want to sell my Mercedes, nor my VSL

    license. I would rather buy another license, like the SE Plus, but for some reason

    you decided to continue to torture us by holding it back.You are so mean!

    Give it to me baby!

    Peter
  • A
    A
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    @charles_30783 said:

    Julian - Good idea regarding a computer tagging the VSL website once a month to revalidate the license. Perhaps the license can have a 30 day clock that needs to be "reset" by VSL. The VSL server could verify not only the product but the machine (s) used. There may be some issues when a computer is changed or upgraded, but I think this could be solved. ~Charles
     

    Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... the last thing I want when I'm doing a studio session is to be reminded that VSL must "check my license" and, horror of horrors, have my software deactivated....

    That said, having lots of valuable licenses in a little dongle can be a bit worrying when you move around. I occasionally do orchestra sessions in outside studios and take my laptop - lots of curious musicians hang around my rig during breaks and it wouldn't be too difficult to swipe the dongle. Oh well, I just have to unplug it each time and hang it round my neck on a strap. Problem is that this also means closing my software and reloading after the break.... aaargh!!!

    So I guess insurance would be the way to go...  Does anyone know of a company that insures music gear and software in Italy? 

    Regards,

    Aidan 
  • R
    R
    Right. I'm down here in Argentina with a $10,000 baggie full of dongles. I wouldn't suggest my wife bring her diamonds down here (uh, if she had some...well she does have the one), but I've no choice.

    I suppose the dongles are the best current solution, but in certain respects they are far from a good solution, and place an inappropriate burden on customers.

    It would be one thing if insurance for loss or theft was readily available, as it is for automobiles (and jewels...), but it is not. This is one huge grey area in existing policies (many of which limit coverage for computer and audio equipment to begin with). I do think developers, and especially the anti-piracy developers like Syncrosoft and Pace, have a responsibility to sort things in this area.

    If I must have dongles, why couldn't they be secured physically (as in a "wired" safe deposit box), and then pinged remotely when I want to use the software? Really, Pace and Syncrosoft are taking in hefty fees...they need to put in the work to earn them.

    That said, I hold zero malice for music software developers using dongles. I reserve that for the f@#*ing software thieves that have brought this all about.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    on several occasions (like eg. a fair) it has become common practice to secure various parts from beeing *displaced*, even if they are of a dimension which would make us assume it would be impossible to displace them ...

     

    ideas and suggestions to make a license expire regulary or beeing dependant on *touching a server* should be considered very carefully and in their whole depth of pros and cons - i think it is much more critical to have a license stored on the computer or bound to a harddisk/network interface/ect than to a dongle. de-authorizing a license from a computer or harddisk which has died can easily become a mess and reveals finally the same problem as not beeing able to access a license on a key which is *offline*

     

    it sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...

     

    let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website. not only that now i'm not able to upgrade it aslo i would need to purchase a new full version and i will never be able to transfer the license to another server - i would be really happy to have the license on a dongle to simply attach it to another machine ...

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • C
    C
    Christian: “t sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...” I try not to be in that mindset. I usually take very good care of my gear to the point where I still have and use vintage synths from years and years ago that look and work as new. The issue for me is that the dongle is so small and fragile that it is very easy to misplace or damage. Given the value of the products registered on the dongle, I would be willing to pay more money for a more permanent in-computer solution. A PCI card could do the trick ( of course, it would take up slot) or a more substantial outboard box rather than a flimsy plastic dongle. Another idea I am toying with is to reverse the input on my computer USB port and actually have the dongle INSIDE the computer as opposed to outside exposed to harm. What happens if the dongle breaks or dies (as opposed to lost)? This would be no fault of the owner. Can the license be replaced at no charge then? Incidentally, I have spoken with my insurance agent and am placing additional coverage on this software. For in-studio use, the cost is about $100 a year for $25,000 worth of protection with only a $50 deduction. This brings more peace of mind given the ephemeral nature of the dongle. I am not sure what out of studio costs would be for traveling. Charles
  • H
    H

    If the dongle breaks or dies it's no problem to replace the dongle and all licenses.

    The dongle has to be registered and the dongle has to be sent to our distributors (or to Vienna).

    Than we can look at the dongle number and check the licenses holding on that key in a Syncrosoft database interface.

    And than you will get a new dongle with new licenses from Vienna.

    best

    Herb
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    .. as this post already explains ... in 1a) 1b) and 2)

    christian

    edit: and you can request a demo mode license to get up and running again with almost no delay ...

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • L
    L
    I actually think julians idea is not bad, though I'd make it a little bit different. Not with a forced one monthly internet-sniffing, but more like a manual "refreshing" of the licence (which could be time-limited to one month or so .. of course, the more the better for the user). So let's say, you plan to work somewhere else the next weeks, then you get a fresh licence, which will work for the next month [and if you're unlucky you loose it in this time]. After this month, if no refresh is done, the licence on the dongle just expires [so if somebody stole it or found it, after one month it's definetly useless to him]. Then you have to get a new one from the internet (which would be only possible as registered user). But it should be possible to refresh the licence, even if it still has days to go. Well ... dunno if that's possible with the current version of Synchrosoft-Dongles ... but if it is, I think it would be really a cool thing. I think to have to take some minutes to refresh the dongle once a month is better than the danger to loose maybe thousands of Euros. By the way: What do I have to do to make the forum showing my message with all the stanzas I made ?
  • R
    R
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    @Another User said:

    let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website.

    This however does seem to fall under "responsible for taking care on things." :)
  • S
    S

     The analogy with a car is not, I think, a perfect one. If, for example, you lose the key to your "Mercedes" (or any other car) you can get another without paying for a new car. You can insure your car against loss or theft, but the price of the key is, most likely, less than the deductible.

    The basic problem with using this analogy is that automobile manufacturers do not confront the same problems as software manufacturers. There are, so far as I know, no ubiquitously available, inexpensive, automobile duplicating machines that would allow you to make perfectly functional copies of your Mercedes  (and thus get two or ten for the price of one + the cost of the "duplicator" and materials) while software can be copied in just such fashion from hard drive to hard drive. Hence the need for copy protection.

    However the problem of lost or stolen Vienna keys may need to be thought through more comprehensively so that, if possible, some kind of technical solution might be offered.  (What if, for example, the first time a key was inserted into a computer, it required a visit to the Syncorosoft site for an authorization check - - so that keys reported lost or stolen could then be automatically deauthorized.) In the meantime, buy insurance. 

  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    the analogy with a car is far away from beeing perfect but to spin your objection further: since copying of software happens at almost no costs consequently the first specimen of a software should be paid and all following ones almost free (because only copies) .... obviously also not applying.

    additionally the situation is different because we don't talk about software but copyrighted content - you can get a replacement for your ViennaInstruments or ViennaEnsemble software whenever you like.

     

    as posted earlier: any alternate method like *touching a server* or actually *touching when inserted into a new computer* needs extensive considerations of pros and cons.

    many music computers (if not most) are not connected to the internet, thats why i find the offline license download so useful.

    the only occasion such a method could even work is when a license is beeing transferred or added, in case the dongle is kept offline you never have a chance to check.

     

    christian

     

     

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • R
    R
    Hi I wonder if you could help me out wit an issue I've had with my Vienna key... I bought the Special edition, got it up and running and within a week my key has just stopped working, won't be detected at all. So I got hold of support and they asked me to send it to them and they'll take a look at it and if there's not huge damage, they'll send me a new one with my license on it. They also offered me in teh mean time a demo license (which I'd have to get a new key for) Will this demo license work with my already installed samples and software? I really don't want to have to go through the sh**ty process of organising my soundsets and installations again haha Do you know how it works?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hello Rachmaninoff3,

    Yes, the demo license we send via support will work with your custom presets, no worries.

    Best,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • J
    J

    Doug,

    I have lost the vienna key that allowed me to run the vienna ensemble pro on my master computer.

    How do I obtain a  new  one?

     

    james Ferguson
  • J
    J

    Doug,

    I have lost the vienna key of the VEP server on my master computer.  What is the process for  obtaining another on?

    Thanks,

     

    James Ferguson

    Woodstock, GA, 30188
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi James, 

    Please contact support@vsl.co.at, my colleagues will guide you through.

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support