This made me respond in disbelief. I have used the extended VSL cube  so found this to be very weird.  

This person/company/whatever has done new recordings of all instruments in the Vienna Symphonic Library cube to 9 velocity layers in short notes?

That is hundreds of thousands of samples of a huge number of musicians.  I don't believe this.  Reproduce the Silent Stage, record all the ensembles and solos in strings, woodwinds and brass in short notes, and use 9 velocity layers?  

Actually, I think this is just tweaked, already recorded samples and then assigned to different velocity triggers. That is NOT velocity layers.  The term velocity layers is used to indicate actual recordings of different dynamics, not just MIDI values that are assigned. 

What is going on here?  Is this some kind of scam or is this for real?  The samples, if they have been recorded to 9 velocity layers, cannot possibly match the original recordings on the Silent Stage without an enormous investment of a major company.  So is this an actual major new recording or what?

Hello William,

sorry to disappoint you, but this "person/company/whatever" did not hijack an orchestra and break into the VSL Silent Stage to perform new recordings 😊. The samples for these new sounds were always there as part of the Symphonic Cube ... merely extremely well hidden (somewhere in the "Resource" folder). The HD sounds are assembled out of thousands of patches that include the 9 individual dynamic levels of the repetition dynamics. Yet, these new HD matrices are fully playable just like the standard definition (SD) patches, and therefore they go far beyond the rather limited original purpose of these amazing samples. Their levels are meticulously matched so that they can easily supplement the SD patches for even more variation and realism. They do not share any samples with the SD patches so they can be combined even in unisono without phasing.

Why don't you simply download our full-featured demo package and check it out yourself? It includes e.g. the full Articulate Preset for the Cello giving you instant access to everything included in these vast libraries as well as the new HD shorts on matrices 109-115. Then you will immediately see what this is, how we did it and whether this is useful for you.

Best regards

Kai

Hello!

Just to make this point clear. The "Symphonic Riot" presets don't include any new patches or recordings. They just have been organized in a new way in new presets. The nine velocity layers that Kai has mentioned come from dynamic repetitions where everys repetition can be triggered separately. These patches are available in the libraries anyway.

Best regards,
Andi

The original post was very misleading, because there was no mention of breaking up the repetition patches to use individual short notes.  Just an ad for new "HD" shorts.  (Except for detache I am assuming, as there is no repetition detache unless I am remembering the patches wrong.)  By the way those repetition patches are not "hidden" but present right among the other patches.  Also there is no such thing as "SD" patches (analogous to SD video?) in VSL - they are simply patches with varying amounts of velocity layers and alternate samples.   They are just as high a quality as any of the others. 

Hello

Just a silly question, when you use Synchron ... instruments, do they use also have repetitions patches ?

Thanks

Cyril

Cyril, 

This is just VI not Synchron.  The patches that have been cobbled together from dynamic samples are then assigned to this company's presets which you have to use their questionable proprietary player - as opposed to VI Pro or VE, which are nearly perfect software.   

Symphonic Riot,

These are not "high definition" - they are the same samples originally present in the dynamic samples.  You came on here with the bogus invention of "SD" samples vs. "HD" - that is bullshit, because you are trying to reference  video - so we should think the new HD presets are sampled at... 1920p?  As opposed to Standard Definition video? 

Yeah right.  What about just presenting what you actually did to begin with, and stop trying to fool people  in order to get sales?  

Hello William

I have decided to trash the mix I did with SY .... instruments

The VI instrument seem much more realistic to my ears

Best

Cyril

Dear William,

you obviously did not even spend the 5 minutes to download the demo, load a preset and simply play these sounds, otherwise you would not write something about a "proprietary player". As the name suggests, Articulate Presets are simply presets/matrices for VI pro (which is indeed a perfect software, otherwise we would and could not have done this, so there at least seems to be something we can agree on 😊)

I clearly wrote (even in the title) what we mean with the term "HD": "high definition with 9 velocity layers", which explains that we are referring to the dynamic resolution. In the case of digital video that you quote high definition refers to a larger number of pixels. When it comes to a sampled instrument there are obviously no pixels. Instead the two basic parameters that you can control on your keyboard are the pitch and velocity. While VSLs sounds are already chromatically sampled, a larger number of velocity layers - and correspondingly a finer resolution / higher definition - can be beneficial, as the VSL demonstrated with their pianos (in particular their Vienna Imperial with even up to 128 velocity layers). Providing playable matrices with an increased velocity resolution e.g. for the spiccato from 2 or 3 to 9, we found it appropriate to use the short term "HD" for these sounds. To distinguish them from the standard portato, staccato and spiccato, we used the term "SD", but did not suggest that these are in any way inferior. Quite the opposite, we made sure by painstaking volume matching that our matrices behave otherwise similarly and can be combined with the great standard potato, staccato and spiccato patches for even more variation and realism. 

I only posted here since Andreas from the VSL team encouraged me to do so. We are very open to any constructive criticism and suggestions. We have worked very hard to realize these over 100 new matrices with 9 velocity layers (as well as all the other features Articulate Presets offer). We did this because we love the Vienna Instruments libraries and the VI pro player. Our demo package includes several full-featured presets and matrices as well as all software integrations so that users can without restrictions check out every aspect before they make a purchase. We include all 5 independent in-depth manuals (one for the presets and one for each software integration) that explain every feature in detail. Our presets inherently do not implement any copy protection and everything is completely open, so our users can even easily adapt the presets and matrices to their needs. If you don't need any of this that's perfectly fine. But to suggest that this would be "proprietary" or we would be "trying to fool people in order to get sales" could not be further away from the truth.

Anyway, I wish you a nice day

@Cyril Blanc said:

Hello

Just a silly question, when you use Synchron ... instruments, do they use also have repetitions patches ?

Thanks

 

Cyril

Hello Cyril,

in the Synchron libraries there are no dedicated repetition patches, but all repetitions are directly included in the other patches (e.g. legato) and are played automatically, which simplifies the handling.

All the best

Kai

symphonic riot

The reason I am not too friendly is because of your deliberately acting like this is a new recording - if you look at your original post it sounds like more velocity layers have been recorded on short notes. Which I immediately realized is bullshit  because you couldn't even begin to do what VSL did in their original recordings.  So why don't you make that perfectly clear?  Obviously because you want some sales prior to people understanding what they are getting.     

Don't do this deceptive hype if you want people to be enthusiastic about your company or whatever it is.

Dear Cyril,

Very happy to hear this! I have been using the Symphonic Cube and all its extensions since 2006, and it's been quite a while since I checked back here, simply because the possibilities in the original collection are already so vast. But if I understand well, these are new patches, not adding new recordings but using more of the sources from the original content, thus creating more possibilities in terms of velocities etc? So in other words: if I purchase this set, my original collection will get a serious boost?

Big thanks in advance, and please do keep up the good work:-)

Alex

Hello Alex,

the underlying samples for these sounds are originally included in the repetition dynamics patches (e.g. perf-rep_cre9_por, ...). The latter are patches where whenever you trigger another repetition you get another dynamics level, so that you start with ppp and after the 9th repetition you end up with fff, or vice versa. The VSL made all the individual dynamic levels (from ppp to fff) individually available as separate patches in the Resource folder of (nearly) each library. We assembled these individual patches into matrices that are playable via velocity (or velocity X-fade) just like the standard portato, staccato and spiccato patches. We made sure that these HD Shorts behave very similarly to the standard versions: their minimum and maximum volumes as well as their velocity dependence are matched (i.e. you get about the same volume for the same Midi velocity), but their velocity resolution is higher (i.e. the gradual change of the sound with velocity is improved). Due to all this you can easily combine them with the standard patches. They generally have a distinct sound and thereby provide a clear alternative to vary the playback or even use both versions unisono. The HD Shorts do not offer automatic alternations (round-robins). Yet, being assembled from repetition (dynamics) samples they blend very well with the normal repetition patches and you can manually switch to them to even get nine distinct alternations.

The HD shorts are integrated into Articulate Presets, which are VI pro presets for each instrument that contain over hundred different matrices covering everything included in the corresponding VSL libraries. Each matrix covers another playing technique, yet these matrices do not consist of individual patches. Many offer "3D-control" and combine all available recorded versions for that playing technique and blend them to allow you to continuously change up to 3 different aspects of the sound.  

I hope all this makes it clearer. However, the simplest way to see what this is, how it works and if this is useful for you is simply to download the full-featured demo and play these sounds 😊. 

The demo package includes e.g. the "Cellos S" preset which covers all cello samples included in Solo and Chamber Strings 1 & 2. You can e.g. access all playing techniques (listed in the manual) by program change (PC) messages. Although you can surely also use them without this, to fully take advantage of the 3D-control you will need 3 physical controllers (knobs, faders, pedals, ...) that send Continuous Controller (CC) 2, 3 and 20, respectively. CC20 (Cell X-fade) generally always controls the "section size" (in this preset e.g. blending the Solo Cello and the Chamber Cellos). In the likewise included "Violins D" preset covering the Dimension Violas this controller dials the actual number of players and the auto-divisi feature automatically distributes the played notes among the different Dimension players. What the other two controllers do depends on the particular sound. It is likewise listed in the manual, but you can simply check it out what they control. E.g. for the first (sustained) playing technique CC2 controls the attack and CC3 the vibrato intensity. The new HD Shorts are accessed by PC 109-114 and offer the same continuous control as the corresponding SD matrices.

All the best

Kai

Dear Kai, thank you so much for this most detailed answer, and all the trouble you took to explain this to me, very much appreciated! This goes straight to my "buy asap"-list:-) I am very happy that the VSL-team keeps improving this already unparalleled library, can't wait to try it out!

Warm regards,

Alex

Hello Alex,

just to prevent any misunderstanding: Although the VSL team also still improves the VI series (e.g. with their recent VST3 version of VI pro), and hopefully will continue to do so in the future, this is not an official VSL product, but we are a third-party developer not affiliated with the VSL.

All the best

Kai

As a Symphonic Cube owner, I am highly intrigued by this. So, is there a way a Pro Tools user, who run VE in standalone mode on separate machines, can get his to work?

Best,

Gaute

Hello Gaute,

Articulate Presets are simply presets for VI pro and work with any Sequencer/DAW. If you can host VI pro in the Standalone VE on separate machines so far (i.e. the VI pro instances receive Midi from Pro Tools and the latter receives the audio), then this should definitely work. But to make sure you could just check it out with the demo presets.

All the best

Kai 

To give more Vienna Instruments series users the chance to check out the new HD Shorts with 9 velocity layers for the entire Symphonic Cube, we have added the Articulate Preset for the Trombone, containing the complete content of five full VSL libraries, to the comprehensive Articulate Presets Demo Content.

Thereby, the full-featured demo contains now four complete Articulate Presets: the Cello, the Dimension Violas, the Trombone and the Second Flute. Moreover it includes the complete integration into all supported Music Applications: Logic, Dorico, Cubase & Studio One.

Concurrent with the VSL Vienna Instruments (VI) sale, all Articulate Presets for the VI series are likewise 50% off

Instead of "HD" - which has already met with negative response here - might I suggest perhaps "high contrast timbre" (HCT), "multi-contrast timbre" (MCT), or something else along those lines. "HD" already has specific established meaning among the audio and video technical community; so I believe it really is, therefore, likely to be misleading.

@Macker said:

Instead of "HD" - which has already met with negative response here - might I suggest perhaps "high contrast timbre" (HCT), "multi-contrast timbre" (MCT), or something else along those lines. "HD" already has specific established meaning among the audio and video technical community; so I believe it really is, therefore, likely to be misleading.

Hello Macker,

thanks for your suggestion to change the established name of an 18 months old feature (which is used countless times in nearly 40 presets, 5 distinct manuals, our web site, ...) because it has "met negative response" from a single person.

We spent a lot of time and effort creating these nearly hundred new sounds that extend a classic library by a whole range of alternate versions of key playing techniques. These fully playable matrices were assembled out of great samples that were quite hidden and very likely unused by nearly all users of the Symphonic Cube - and we are very happy with the result! I had explained the motivation and justification for the name above and do not see any problem with it: 9 velocity layers is still state of the art for orchestral sample libraries nowadays, and it says a lot about the quality of the Symphonic Cube and the vision of its creators that such an extension was even possible after 20 years.

We offer a full-featured demo (cello & trombone) and it only takes five minutes to download and install it to simply check out these new sounds (program changes #109-115), so that users can easily see for themselves what this is and if they are useful for them. But for some reason nearly the only feedback we got on this forum regarding this major extension (and free update for all our users) is about naming ...