I dropped VEP for good 2 months ago, now working with a "disabled track"-template. Best decision I've ever made.

Before dropping, I used disabled tracks, where Keyboard Maestro was translating a keyboard shortcut into enabling/disabling tracks via MIDI inside VEP, thinking that VEP was more CPU efficient.

It isn't. After removing that, I've seen about 20% CPU reduction in Rosetta and my iMac Pro Intel mac, even more when using Silicon Native on my Mac Studio M1 Max Ultra.

Running VEP localhost instead of hosting plugins inside the DAW is no longer the better option. The macOS version beyond iLok transition is not stable enough, and it uses more system resources. At least on my two systems.

I've used VEP for 10 years. It was a big step leaving it behind, but no regerets here. Using Nuendo 12 and macOS 12.6.

I've got three servers running on VE pro that I am seriously considering retiring in order to run the same "disabled track" template you are talking about. Before I commit to a very large task of re-creating my whole template, do you have any advice or warnings for someone in a similar scenario who is about to do the same thing?

Oh, and have you solved the issue of RAM not going back down after disabling?  I'm slightly concerned about this as well.  Sounds like I'm not the only one:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/hi-timo-question-about-ram-dumping/64236/18

Hi,

just to share my latest experiment to replace VEPRO in my Dorico setup combining IAC Manager & Mainstage of Apple. Here what I have succeeded to do :

STEP 1  - CREATE A MIDI BRIDGE

1. I opened "Midi and Audio configuration" on my Mac
2. I opened the Midi Tab & selected IAC Manager
3. I activated the IAC Manager & created a new port called "String Spitfire"

At this stage, in Dorico after restart I can now see a new Midi output "IAC String Sptifire" where I can route my Violins I on channel 1, Violins II on channel 2, Violas on channel 3, etc. IMPORTANT : you need to desactivate in Dorico Preference midi Input of IAC to avoid midi loops.

STEP 2 - CREATE A SERVER

1. I opened Mainstage, created a new patch called "String Spitfire" with 5 channels
2. I allocated each channel to a Kontakt instruments (reps. Violins 1, Violins 2, &hellip😉, and modified the channel input of each (Violin 1:1, Violin 2:2, Violas:3,…)
3. Then, in the Channel Strip inspector at the bottom, I have selected « IAC String Sptifire » as a Midi input

And Voilà ! Now my strings in Dorico are connected to the Spitfire Strings in Mainstage. Tomorrow I will try to repeat the process to create Spitfire Brass,  Spitfire Woodwind and all the libraries I have creating new patches.

This solution is very promising and hope I will be able to create and connect my brass as well. I will keep you updated.

EDIT 1 : it does not work, my mistake : you can play only one patch at a time. So the server should be created in Logic Pro  or cubase

EDIT 2 : Finally it can work but you have to add keyboards to the current patch, assign this new keyboard to IAC Spitfire Brass and assign you instrument Kontakt to this new keyboard. So you can create as many IAC port as you have libraries, and route you DAW/ notation software to the corresponding bus of the library you want to use. This way you can load a projet instantenously as all instruments are preloaded in your Mainstage

Hi everybody,

Time to open a new chapter, in a new thread!

Best,
Paul

@Eric Owyoung said:

I've got three servers running on VE pro that I am seriously considering retiring in order to run the same "disabled track" template you are talking about. Before I commit to a very large task of re-creating my whole template, do you have any advice or warnings for someone in a similar scenario who is about to do the same thing?

Oh, and have you solved the issue of RAM not going back down after disabling?  I'm slightly concerned about this as well.  Sounds like I'm not the only one:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/hi-timo-question-about-ram-dumping/64236/18

There are an endless ways of designing Disable Track-template, but it has vast advantages compared to having everything loaded IMO. The most important thing would be that you have a cleaner project visually, with the advantage of still having all the bus routing and signal chains intact. When I start my template it's completely empty. Using different Project Logical Editor chains and Keyboard macros within Cubendo, you can create show/hide-presets for just about anything.

If you're going to transfer things from VEP, then get Keyboard Maestro and make macros for everything (saving Kontakt multis, etc). VEP to me has always been "half-finished" when it comes to workflow. Things that should have shortcuts doesn't, or it crashes when using the shortcuts, or text elements (track names, etc) randomly stops responding to keyboard shortcuts, so they need right-click-menus to be copy pasted to/from. All these repetitive tasks can break you down, it's better to use KM to record a macro that clicks for you. It takes some time setting up, but defenitely worth it.

The "purge RAM"-issue I haven't noticed any problems with, but I have 128GB RAM in both my workstations, so plenty of headroom.

@Paul said:

Hi everybody, 

Time to open a new chapter, in a new thread!

Best, 
Paul

Hey no disrespect meant, but it was mentioned that VEP was in beta months ago, so it's great that Synchron is AS and all, but anyone who thought about it from a business perspective knew that VEP would not be first to port, since then you would be showcasing Kontakt, Play, Spitfire libraries native AS support while highlighting inadvertently that Synchron etc. were not AS compatible yet. 

 So great news, not sure how it relates to this thread in general? since it's still months away from native support, just now with an offical announcement. 😊 

@Michael Canavan said:

So great news, not sure how it relates to this thread in general? since it's still months away from native support, just now with an offical announcement. 😊 

I agree with you, the announcement relates only tangentially to VEP, although I am happy for those who use Synchron. In the meantime, VEP becomes less of an indispensable tool, as we find alternatives.

Could somebody please elaborate on the Audio Gridder subject? I would love to quit VEP Pro, since the company is so awfully slow in delivering updates. Is it reliable and working yet?

Happily watched video...

Result. We still need to wait....😢

@Eulenauge66 said:

Could somebody please elaborate on the Audio Gridder subject? I would love to quit VEP Pro, since the company is so awfully slow in delivering updates. Is it reliable and working yet?

I've been using AudioGridder for a few months. While it isn't perfect (what is), it has allowed me to replace VEP and to keep working. It's free, and in my opinion, worth a try. In a nutshell, it uses the same server/plugin model as VEP, with some additional enhancements. If interested, their website is the place to really explore.

https://audiogridder.com/

There's also a few YouTube videos on the subject.

Whoa!  Speaking of new threads - this Audio Gridder plugin looks very interesting.  I've found workarounds for no VEP that work well enough.  The Mac Pro Studio has the horsepower to run Kontakt and all the AAX versions of instruments (Spitfire etc) plus Weiss DS1 Mk3 and many instances of Gullfoss (famous CPU pig) at the same time.  But I did love the organization of VEP and will certainly miss access to the hoard of VEP setups I've built over the years.  Going back to old projects will be a PITB.  The best would be for Paul to announce tomorrow that it works.  Can it really be that hard?

So I think you make a valid point, that VSL wants to prioritize their VST instruments over VEP.  But I always thought that was kinda backward.  I've been working in film scoring for 15 years and have worked for several A-List composers and I've never been in a studio that had VSL VST's as their primary libraries.  Maybe a couple patches here and there, but never the whole template built around VSL instruments.  So despite their marketing, I've always thought VEP was their most popular product.  

So is their VST instrument market way more popular than VEP?  Is that why VEP has been deprioritized?

Genuinely curious.  For context I don't own a single VSL VST instrument.   

@Michael Canavan said:

Hey no disrespect meant, but it was mentioned that VEP was in beta months ago, so it's great that Synchron is AS and all, but anyone who thought about it from a business perspective knew that VEP would not be first to port, since then you would be showcasing Kontakt, Play, Spitfire libraries native AS support while highlighting inadvertently that Synchron etc. were not AS compatible yet. 

 So great news, not sure how it relates to this thread in general? since it's still months away from native support, just now with an offical announcement. 😊 

[/quote]

And I messed up the formatting for the quote reply and don't know how to fix it 😔

@Michael Canavan said:

Hey no disrespect meant, but it was mentioned that VEP was in beta months ago, so it's great that Synchron is AS and all, but anyone who thought about it from a business perspective knew that VEP would not be first to port, since then you would be showcasing Kontakt, Play, Spitfire libraries native AS support while highlighting inadvertently that Synchron etc. were not AS compatible yet. 

 So great news, not sure how it relates to this thread in general? since it's still months away from native support, just now with an offical announcement. 😊 

[/quote]

@rockdude9k said:

So I think you make a valid point, that VSL wants to prioritize their VST instruments over VEP.  But I always thought that was kinda backward.  I've been working in film scoring for 15 years and have worked for several A-List composers and I've never been in a studio that had VSL VST's as their primary libraries.  Maybe a couple patches here and there, but never the whole template built around VSL instruments.  So despite their marketing, I've always thought VEP was their most popular product.  

Funny, I've been thinking the same thing. I've worked as a composer all my life and have (almost) never used VST libraries, nor do I know anyone in this business who does, currently. But VEP is another matter! So yes, they must have good reasons for prioritizing, but in my humble opinion, they dropped the ball. Now those of us who cannot afford to wait are finding other solutions.

Right. the composers I was talking about are doing the tentpole, blockbuster films. No one that I know in film and TV are using vepro anymore, or are in the midst of phasing it out.  Abandoned it because it's taken so long to become native, and vsl keeps saying it's right around the corner but then release new instruments? I just don't get it. To add insult to injury, the response to complaints about things on this forum that just get a response like "people seem to really like it" is just another reason that people are bailing on vepro. Too bad because it really was a great and very important piece of our workflow. They obviously don't listen to the voices on here and are oblivious to their customer base.  

@rockdude9k said:

So I think you make a valid point, that VSL wants to prioritize their VST instruments over VEP.  But I always thought that was kinda backward.  I've been working in film scoring for 15 years and have worked for several A-List composers and I've never been in a studio that had VSL VST's as their primary libraries.  Maybe a couple patches here and there, but never the whole template built around VSL instruments.  So despite their marketing, I've always thought VEP was their most popular product.  

 

So is their VST instrument market way more popular than VEP?  Is that why VEP has been deprioritized?

 

Genuinely curious.  For context I don't own a single VSL VST instrument.  

The reason I thought that and was right about them wanting to port at least newer libraries over like Synchron before VEP has more to do with simple pride, if none of their plug ins but VEP run natively then it looks bad when you as a user are using other companies libraries in VEP but not VSL's. With Synchron ported first then they can port VEP and have a lot of plug ins to offer natively. 

  To be fair to VSL, they are not the only company with plug ins or DAWs not ported, Pro Tools native is still an open beta, and Reason Studios isn't even in beta. Then there's Air, PSP, NI, Audio Ease, Nomad Factory etc. 

You'll notice all these companies are more than 10 years old, technical debt piles up, NI admitted that some of their plug ins have 15 year old GUI code. Reaktor their oldest product is last in line for native support. Who knows if Air or  Nomad Factory will ever port? PSP have been going one plug in every couple months for a long time now. 

Okay, ya I get the pride thing.  I can see how they want to say VEP is native and here are all of our instruments that can run in VEP natively.

And at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it's VEP8 with new features and AS native.  If that's the case, it would certainly help explain why it's taken so long.

I'm just still frustrated that they didn't focus on the bridge plugin.  I've said it before and I'm saying it again, I just need the bridge plugin to run natively and then everything will be great.  VEP is a tool, it's meant to be a workflow solution and it feels like marketing has taken over and said, no no, we have to have new features and a new version and it all has to be released with our other products.  But from my point of view, I just want to use the tool that has become essential to my workflow.  I would have happily paid $20 (or more) for the bridge plugin to be updated and then they can take all the time they need to release VEP8.

I have to agree with rockdude9k. I am now at the stage where I have reworked my Cubase template and I need to delete all my non M1 compliant plugins. Whether Universal Audio, NI, iZotope etc..
There are important software, like your Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 that provides so many other instruments for me on different servers.
I wouldn't know how to organize all my instruments without Vienna Ensemble Pro 7. It would be similar to NI saying, they don't care about the Kontakt 7 plugin anymore.
So my please to you, make our most important tool (At least for me and all who have bigger templates) a higher priority in your development.