@littlewierdo said:

1. You use the word "downgrade", meaning, you will be getting less than what you have now. That is simply not true. Nothing is going to change. You keep your VEP6 licenses, even if you do upgrade. You arent being downgraded, nor are you being forced to upgrade.

Why playing with words?
- If you upgrade to 7, there's a 'downgrade' regarding the number of licenses.
- 6 & 7 can't coexist. There's no version number on software and if I remember well, I installed 5 while having 6 once and I guess it uninstalled 6 (to be verified).
- If you upgrade to 7 and wish to keep your number of licenses as you say, you have to avoid installing 7 so as to use 6. Why upgrading to 7 then?

BTW we should remember the Synchron Player story. How long did it take to get the player after Synchron Strings release? Months. Speaking for myself, hopefully I didn't use the SYstrings in my work before getting the player. I know people who did and are stuck to keep both banks now (VI & SYplayer) on their harddrives. Who was aware of this (bank uncompatibility from VI to SY)? Nobody, thanks to VSL.

The launching at that time was about a 'revolutionnary' orchestral bank first and the player had been announced later. It's different yet with VEpro7, everyone can have a look to he main page:
> Product Overview > Software > NEW: Vienna Ensemble Pro 7
Consider that the staff can't even give a single info about the announced product yet which looks weird at least...

Speaking for myself and starting from my experience with SYstrings & SYplayer, the fake promises and the lack of clear and fair preliminary infos and details, I know exactly what I'll do for now: nothing.

I remember well the Synchron story and it's a sad reminder of how Vienna operates. As I wrote earlier I think this is a money grab because they're short on funds. Just like East West did when they announced the ProXP entension of their originl EWQLSO Symphony libraries. Took our money and the ProXP upgrade didn't show until well over a year later.

 

As to VEPro 6 and 7 coexisting on the same computer it may well be possible, at least on a Mac. With Digital Performer if you want to have different versions (even whole number ones) you just rename the existing installed program. But seeing as how Paul is reticent on discussing the finer parts of this 'upgrade' all we're left with is speculation and that ain't good.

@littlewierdo said:

Ensemble is more than just networking, it is also a nice host for gathering all those pesky VST windows like Kontakt, Play, Omnisphere, etc into one place. I will also add, its a nice simple mixer with very convenient routing options. The Pro version also has convenient ways of keeping channels organized and is lighter on the CPU than its free counterpart. Whether the majority of people purchased Ensemble Pro only for its network hosting of VST plugins, I cant say, but it wasnt one of the reasons I purchased a license for it.

By the way, I never said keep using your VEP6 license indefinitely. I said, keep using your VEP6 license and upgrade when VEP7 goes on sale. Everyone is using the "when it isnt on sale" prices to suggest that this way to expensive, I am saying, if you are buying anything from Vienna when it isnt on sale, you are throwing money away, because everything Vienna sells is discounted several times during the course of the year. Buy the upgrade when it goes on sale.

By the way, Reaper has some of this functionality, however, there is talk of removing the Reamote code from Reaper.

Oh, and with regards to 'treating you with respect', that is a laugh. Nothing they have done here has been disrespectful. In fact, quite the contrary, they have announced a new version is coming and the pricing. They arent ready to announce features. They never made fun of your mother. They didnt insult you. They didnt accuse your father of smelling of elder berries. They simply announced a new version and pricing.

On the other hand, reading the comments in the thread here, the community has done the opposite. Paul has been blamed for this, and Im pretty sure the poor guy is merely the messenger. Someone in a smoke filled dusty room said, we have a new thing, go tell the masses. I dont think anyone at Vienna expected this kind of blowback. They have a new thing, they are excited about it. They underestimated the fact that people arent happy to pay money sight unseen. The guys in the smoke filled room clearly think this thing is awesome and worth the price of admission, however, they arent ready to spill the beans. Its really hard to get someone hyped about something if you cant tell them what to be hyped for. I only hope this is a lesson Vienna has learned, because especially when it comes to paid software upgrades that are pretty much required, no one is thrilled about them. Add the additional question of, is this a paid upgrade for the sake of Vienna trying to make money without providing anything in return and it tends to make people feel nickled and dimed.

I am not a fanboy for Vienna. The upgrade is a bit pricey, but it will go on sale. If you pay sticker price, you are a fool and no, your shit aint going to break before youve had ample time to purchase the upgrade when its already been on sale numerous times.

 

With all due respect, I wouldn´t know if you are a fanboy or not, but you are the only one who is speaking on behalf of Vienna for several days, presuming things that could not be true (vep6 and 7 coexisting, marketing decisions, etc), and trying to extrapolate your situation to the rest of us.

There hasn´t been any sort of official word for several days, the taiko offer deadline has come and gone, and it is complete silence here about all the questions we have rised.

@pablo1980 said:

With all due respect, I wouldn´t know if you are a fanboy or not, but you are the only one who is speaking on behalf of Vienna for several days, presuming things that could not be true (vep6 and 7 coexisting, marketing decisions, etc), and trying to extrapolate your situation to the rest of us.

There hasn´t been any sort of official word for several days, the taiko offer deadline has come and gone, and it is complete silence here about all the questions we have rised.

Littlewierdo is definitely  fanboi/apologist for Vienna. Worse than some of the others around here that can't understand why a number of us are mad at what Vienna's doing. And why we get little more than happy words from Paul.

 

At least let us know specifics of what is needed in the way of a computer setup like what operating system at a minimum, etc. At least NI with the announcement of Massive X (and it's being delayed) let's us know that you need an Intel processor with avx extensions which people using quite capable MacPro cheesegraters and some iMacs are left out of the loop. For some of us that allows us to budget/spend our money elsewheres without missing on a discount price.

Personally, we arent interested in the add-ons in the least. And we do need far more than one license here. ;) 

So we too, are 'concerned' but awaiting more details.

With all due respect this announcement was IMHO a bit weird.

It's not a simple upgrade (otherwise it would simply replace VEP6 and would be downward compatible). But hey - we can't tell you any details yet except our extended showcase and some existing fxs bundled. We are still testing. So none of your features are that stable that you can tell for sure that this feature is in?

But on the other hand we will be charging you a lot more than a regular update if you are actually using the former version to it's full extent.

So for more than a week tight lipped and no further details? Your original excuse was that you want to create appropriate videos to demonstrate these mysterious features - does take screencasts so long to produce?

Oh I forgot - get it till 28th February to receive a free Taiko Drum Kit. Seriously?

At least you get my personal reward for the most weirdest product announcement in 2019 (yes I know it's only March but this announcement is hard to top).

@SazzSomewhere said:

At least you get my personal reward for the most weirdest product announcement in 2019 (yes I know it's only March but this announcement is hard to top).

You have my vote.

@musicman691 said:

At least let us know specifics of what is needed in the way of a computer setup like what operating system at a minimum, etc.

They are right here on the product page for VE Pro 7.

VE Pro 7 System Requirements

***

I wish there was more information. I kind of hoped that March 1st might see some news. So far no.

I went ahead and pre-ordered without that. I could end up being sorry. That is not my expectation though. I completely understand why folks are upset. The rollout of the pre-order is odd at best without any information. I only use one computer, so the single license vs. three licences doesn't bother me. If I networked several computers, it would.

With all due respect, perhaps reading comprehension amongst some of Vienna's user base is a bit lkacking. I stated several things I have issues with Vienna about. I even stated some oddities regarding this announcement.

What I have taken issue with is the complaints and how they have been worded. Words have been used that completely and inaccurately describe the situation, and people have placed the blame on the wrong people.

I will reiterate.

This is NOT a downgrade. That is absurd and stupid, period. The purchase of one or multiple licenses for VEP7 is not a downgrade. You are not loosing something by purchasing a license. In point of fact, you are keeping your VEP6 licenses. A downgrade would mean you are getting less than what you already have. That is not accurate.

I am willing to bet, just as Cubase 9.5 and Cubase 10 both COEXIST on my machine currently, I am able to run both Cubase 9.5 and Cubase 10. VEP6 & 7 will not likely communicate with each other. Sure. That doesnt mean you cant keep VEP6 installed until you have all your licenses for VEP7. Id be willing to bet, you can even keep VEP6 and 7 both installed and use whichever version you need to, because you arent losing a VEP6 license in this upgrade process.

In addition, ya'll have been pretty disengenuous about the price, with comments in here stating that this upgrade is double the price of VEP6. This is also patently false. Perhaps this upgrade is more expensive than the upgrade path was from VEP5 to VEP6, fine. I wasnt around for that. However, that is not how the comments were worded. People are stating that the upgrade from VEP6 to VEP7 is double, implying that the price of VEP6 is the same price as the upgrade price of 3 VEP6 licenses to VEP7. This is wrong (even if you dont take the sale price into account), and fails to take into account that VEP7 upgrade prices will continue to remain discounted as they currently are for several weeks after the launch of VEP7.

Ya'll also are bitching about an update you know nothing about. I realize you are scratching your head at this point saying, "yea dipshit, thats what we are trying to say". However, on the other side of the coin, this might be offer something gamechanging. The point is, you dont know. Is the upgrade worth it to you? I dunno, maybe wait and see what they announce before you start screaming the world is going to end???

No one is forcing you to upgrade and your shit aint going to break the instant VEP7 releases. VEP6 will still receive maintainence updates, Paul has stated that. If VEP7 doesnt offer anything you need, dont buy it. The point is, you dont even know anything about it, you're just bitching about a paid product update sight unseen. Unable to contain your need to complain because, and I get this, no one like to be nickled and dimed, and that is unfortunately what alot of paid software updates feel like these days, you have blown this way out of proportion, going to the point of being dishonest in your description of what this is, using terms like downgrade and paying double / the same price as VEP6.

Paul is a big boy, he can handle the criticism, I certainly dont need to defend the guy. What I can tell you is, I know what PR is like. Paul is taking the brunt of this and unfairly in my oipinion. The guy is just delivering a message. Paul isnt in charge of what information is released. He is not in charge of what gets announced. Someone there tells him, its his job to organize the information he is given and arrange it in a press release.

I am not a fanboy of Vienna. This announcement was certainly weird. The pricing is a little high in my view, but not outrageous, especially when considering that you should be making this purchase when it is on sale. I dont like Synchron player, the ui is horrible. I hate that they have split their userbase by having two seperate groups of sounds that require either VI or Synchron, rather than making both players compatible with all of Vienna's sounds. I think it is bizarre that the VI solo strings have no ability to control vibrato. I think charging additional money for polyphonic legato (having to purchase Instruments Pro) is wrong. Synchron player was released apparently not thoughrally bug tested with some huge issues that should have been easily caught before it was released to the public.

I have issues with Vienna. It doesnt mean I dont like their products. No company is perfect. Using hyperbole to overstate an issue does no one any good. That is how Im reading this situation. Ya'll have overblown this. It could have been handled better on both sides. Vienna gets that Im sure. Im saying what they cant, the way the community has addressed this is, well, in standard internet fashion, like shit.

A firm should be able to estimate when the tension has gone. It is time to reveal the secret. (And for all the people looking for free sounds ... at Spitfire, Resonance Sound, Sounds of Revolution oder at Bestservice etc. ... There are tons of very usable freesounds of all kind outthere. Over the years I collected more than 100 GB of free samples of all kinds.)

@littlewierdo said:

The purchase of one or multiple licenses for VEP7 is not a downgrade. You are not loosing something by purchasing a license. In point of fact, you are keeping your VEP6 licenses. A downgrade would mean you are getting less than what you already have.

Although I agree with you on some things, this has been explained to you several times now: VEP7 does not work with VEP6 so if you upgrade one license you can’t use the other ones, thus you’re loosing what you had.

I have a hint for littlewierdo: go back to Gearslutz from whence you came.

But I will say this for you - you're living up to your screen name.

@littlewierdo said:

With all due respect, perhaps reading comprehension amongst some of Vienna's user base is a bit lkacking. I stated several things I have issues with Vienna about. I even stated some oddities regarding this announcement. What I have taken issue with is the complaints and how they have been worded. Words have been used that completely and inaccurately describe the situation, and people have placed the blame on the wrong people. I will reiterate. This is NOT a downgrade. That is absurd and stupid, period. The purchase of one or multiple licenses for VEP7 is not a downgrade. You are not loosing something by purchasing a license. In point of fact, you are keeping your VEP6 licenses. A downgrade would mean you are getting less than what you already have. That is not accurate. I am willing to bet, just as Cubase 9.5 and Cubase 10 both COEXIST on my machine currently, I am able to run both Cubase 9.5 and Cubase 10. VEP6 & 7 will not likely communicate with each other. Sure. That doesnt mean you cant keep VEP6 installed until you have all your licenses for VEP7. Id be willing to bet, you can even keep VEP6 and 7 both installed and use whichever version you need to, because you arent losing a VEP6 license in this upgrade process. In addition, ya'll have been pretty disengenuous about the price, with comments in here stating that this upgrade is double the price of VEP6. This is also patently false. Perhaps this upgrade is more expensive than the upgrade path was from VEP5 to VEP6, fine. I wasnt around for that. However, that is not how the comments were worded. People are stating that the upgrade from VEP6 to VEP7 is double, implying that the price of VEP6 is the same price as the upgrade price of 3 VEP6 licenses to VEP7. This is wrong (even if you dont take the sale price into account), and fails to take into account that VEP7 upgrade prices will continue to remain discounted as they currently are for several weeks after the launch of VEP7. Ya'll also are bitching about an update you know nothing about. I realize you are scratching your head at this point saying, "yea dipshit, thats what we are trying to say". However, on the other side of the coin, this might be offer something gamechanging. The point is, you dont know. Is the upgrade worth it to you? I dunno, maybe wait and see what they announce before you start screaming the world is going to end??? No one is forcing you to upgrade and your shit aint going to break the instant VEP7 releases. VEP6 will still receive maintainence updates, Paul has stated that. If VEP7 doesnt offer anything you need, dont buy it. The point is, you dont even know anything about it, you're just bitching about a paid product update sight unseen. Unable to contain your need to complain because, and I get this, no one like to be nickled and dimed, and that is unfortunately what alot of paid software updates feel like these days, you have blown this way out of proportion, going to the point of being dishonest in your description of what this is, using terms like downgrade and paying double / the same price as VEP6. Paul is a big boy, he can handle the criticism, I certainly dont need to defend the guy. What I can tell you is, I know what PR is like. Paul is taking the brunt of this and unfairly in my oipinion. The guy is just delivering a message. Paul isnt in charge of what information is released. He is not in charge of what gets announced. Someone there tells him, its his job to organize the information he is given and arrange it in a press release. I am not a fanboy of Vienna. This announcement was certainly weird. The pricing is a little high in my view, but not outrageous, especially when considering that you should be making this purchase when it is on sale. I dont like Synchron player, the ui is horrible. I hate that they have split their userbase by having two seperate groups of sounds that require either VI or Synchron, rather than making both players compatible with all of Vienna's sounds. I think it is bizarre that the VI solo strings have no ability to control vibrato. I think charging additional money for polyphonic legato (having to purchase Instruments Pro) is wrong. Synchron player was released apparently not thoughrally bug tested with some huge issues that should have been easily caught before it was released to the public. I have issues with Vienna. It doesnt mean I dont like their products. No company is perfect. Using hyperbole to overstate an issue does no one any good. That is how Im reading this situation. Ya'll have overblown this. It could have been handled better on both sides. Vienna gets that Im sure. Im saying what they cant, the way the community has addressed this is, well, in standard internet fashion, like shit.

Honestly, I wouldn’t know where to start, there’s so many bets and assumptions (and statements that even contradict Paul) , that I will leave you be and wait for an official word about my concerns. Dear VSL, there is a lot of people concerned about your policies, here, in other forums, in the real world, and you are letting Littleweirdo to “explain” them to us. I sincerely hope you are thinking hard about this situation.

@littlewierdo said:

The purchase of one or multiple licenses for VEP7 is not a downgrade. You are not loosing something by purchasing a license. In point of fact, you are keeping your VEP6 licenses. A downgrade would mean you are getting less than what you already have.

Although I agree with you on some things, this has been explained to you several times now: VEP7 does not work with VEP6 so if you upgrade one license you can’t use the other ones, thus you’re loosing what you had.

Where does it say that if you upgrade one VEP7 license that suddenly VEP6 will not work? The only thing I have seen (albeit, I didnt see it from Paul, I saw others make the claim that Paul said this), is that VEP 6 will not communicate with VEP7. Meaning, if I have VEP7 running on my server, I cant use a VEP6 instance to communicate with it. This however is not a downgrade. It means, you have to continue to use what you currently have, which is VEP6 until all instances that you are going to use are upgraded. This isnt rocket science. To put it in the correct terms, this is not being able to use a piece of what you paid for until you have all the pieces.

I cant put a table together until I have purchased all three (or more) legs. If I decide to change the legs, I must still purchase all three (or more) of them before I can put the table together and use it. This means, I can purchase one leg at a time. I can even run it through various skupting tools to shape that leg how I want it to look. Until I have all three however, I cant put said table together. However, I can continue to use said table with the old legs, I just cant use said table by mixing and matching the legs (well, technically, I can, but it would look weird, for purposes of this analogy, lets just go with, I cant until all three or more legs are purchased and matching).

If my table legs are currently made of pine and I decide to upgrade the legs to a more sturdy oak, I dont suddenly LOOSE my pine legs by purchasing an oak leg. Heck, buying 3 oak legs doesnt make the 3 pine legs disappear.

Now, I get it, we are dealing with software, which is more esoteric than tangible goods. Vienna could very easily have broken this analogy by removing your VEP6 licenses when you purchase VEP7, through the magic of flipping a bit. However, they havent, thus the analogy works. You are still able to keep what you already have, you just cant use the new stuff until youve updated all the components.

Each instance of VEP is a component. It must be running the same version to communicate with another instance. All the components that wish to communicate must be running the same version. Luckily, you have 3 VEP6 licenses (or more) that will continue to communicate happily with each other, even if you have a VEP7 installation on the same machine. You need to upgrade all the components to VEP7 if you want to run VEP7. Since you are currently running VEP6, it isnt a downgrade from what you currently have. However, since you havent yet purchased all the components, ie. VEP7, it is not yet an upgrade. Thus, nothing changes, you continue to run what you have, not a downgrade.

Tables with three legs

@Another User said:

Honestly, I wouldn’t know where to start, there’s so many bets and assumptions (and statements that even contradict Paul) , that I will leave you be and wait for an official word about my concerns.

Dear VSL, there is a lot of people concerned about your policies, here, in other forums, in the real world, and you are letting Littleweirdo to “explain” them to us.
I sincerely hope you are thinking hard about this situation.

Start sarcasm:

It certainly is interesting, its only me that is making bets and assumptions, none of you have done that, no, of course not.

Of course, there has been zero hyperbole on this subject since the announcement, no one blew this out of proportion, of course not.

End sarcasm:

My explanations have been on this issue, wait and see. It isnt me who has made any assumptions, except maybe that VEP6 can be installed alongside VEP7 (note, I didnt say, will work together).

Im calling people out for making assumptions on things they know nothing about, being shitty about it, and throwing out personal insults. While I only quoted two shitty comments directed at me, there are a plethora of them littered throughout this thread, and at least two directed at Paul. This is unacceptable.

We are all adults here, act like it. If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.

"Don't be a dick" - Whil Wheaton

@littlewierdo said:

Where does it say that if you upgrade one VEP7 license that suddenly VEP6 will not work?

Where did it say that if you upgraded one VEP6 license that suddenly VEP5 would not work? Nowhere. And following, can you have VEP5 working when VEP6 installed? Where did it say that when preordering (or ordering) and using SYstrings before SYplayer release would imply keeping the bank stored twice on your hard drive? Nowhere.

@littlewierdo said:

My explanations have been on this issue, wait and see. It isnt me who has made any assumptions, except maybe that VEP6 can be installed alongside VEP7 (note, I didnt say, will work together). Im calling people out for making assumptions on things they know nothing about, being shitty about it, and throwing out personal insults. While I only quoted two shitty comments directed at me, there are a plethora of them littered throughout this thread, and at least two directed at Paul. This is unacceptable.[b]We are all adults here, act like it.

Are you not wondering why people who have bought the product do still have to assume and to speculate? Theoretically we (people who bought it) could receive an email which clarifies features. Are you still excited or are you bored/ nerved or even annoyed by the way the infos are hidden? Many people would answer this in different ways. And YES, you are right. We are adults! A very important point! I like announcements like Modern Scoring Brass from Audiobro. Everything is clarified from the beginning very clear. You know there is something big coming. And the excitement stays linear or even rises. BTW, the thing with the Community-Name was not meant to hurt you. It was just a little funny to read what you are doing while the samples are loaded. I delete this.

...

@Another User said:

Honestly, I wouldn’t know where to start, there’s so many bets and assumptions (and statements that even contradict Paul) , that I will leave you be and wait for an official word about my concerns.

Dear VSL, there is a lot of people concerned about your policies, here, in other forums, in the real world, and you are letting Littleweirdo to “explain” them to us.
I sincerely hope you are thinking hard about this situation.

Start sarcasm:

It certainly is interesting, its only me that is making bets and assumptions, none of you have done that, no, of course not.

Of course, there has been zero hyperbole on this subject since the announcement, no one blew this out of proportion, of course not.

End sarcasm:

My explanations have been on this issue, wait and see. It isnt me who has made any assumptions, except maybe that VEP6 can be installed alongside VEP7 (note, I didnt say, will work together).

Im calling people out for making assumptions on things they know nothing about, being shitty about it, and throwing out personal insults. While I only quoted two shitty comments directed at me, there are a plethora of them littered throughout this thread, and at least two directed at Paul. This is unacceptable.

We are all adults here, act like it. If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.

"Don't be a dick" - Whil Wheaton

As I said, I will leave it here and wait for Paul or somebody from VSL eventual response, I don’t like internet arguments and If I have offended you or anyone I offer my apologies.

@littlewierdo said:

Where does it say that if you upgrade one VEP7 license that suddenly VEP6 will not work?

Where did it say that if you upgraded one VEP6 license that suddenly VEP5 would not work? Nowhere. And following, can you have VEP5 working when VEP6 installed?

Where did it say that when preordering (or ordering) and using SYstrings before SYplayer release would imply keeping the bank stored twice on your hard drive? Nowhere.

It isnt much of a stretch. Go to MyVSL download archive and download Ensemble 5.4 and Ensemble 4 and install them. They should be installed to completely different directories. VEP4, VEP5, and VEP6 all work just fine if installed on the same machine. No, they cant communicate with instances that are a different version number, but they can be installed on the same machine and all run independently of each other. It isnt much of a stretch to imagine that VEP7 will work the same as every previous release of VEP has worked, and more importantly, how nearly all software works. Very few pieces of software prevent you from having multiple versions installed side by side and I doubt VEP7 will be any different.

@Another User said:

Honestly, I wouldn’t know where to start, there’s so many bets and assumptions (and statements that even contradict Paul) , that I will leave you be and wait for an official word about my concerns.

Dear VSL, there is a lot of people concerned about your policies, here, in other forums, in the real world, and you are letting Littleweirdo to “explain” them to us.
I sincerely hope you are thinking hard about this situation.

Start sarcasm:

It certainly is interesting, its only me that is making bets and assumptions, none of you have done that, no, of course not.

Of course, there has been zero hyperbole on this subject since the announcement, no one blew this out of proportion, of course not.

End sarcasm:

My explanations have been on this issue, wait and see. It isnt me who has made any assumptions, except maybe that VEP6 can be installed alongside VEP7 (note, I didnt say, will work together).

Im calling people out for making assumptions on things they know nothing about, being shitty about it, and throwing out personal insults. While I only quoted two shitty comments directed at me, there are a plethora of them littered throughout this thread, and at least two directed at Paul. This is unacceptable.

We are all adults here, act like it. If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.

"Don't be a dick" - Whil Wheaton

Why don't you try following your own words dude. And we should call YOU out for making assumptions on something you know nothing about. But there's no use in repeating words already written. You keep making excuses and refuse to believe VEPro 7 is a downgrade from VEPro 6 at least license-wise. This license business should have NEVER happened.