Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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    @yilalatavsl said:

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    Thanks for posting your level of satisfaction with Synchron Strings 1, and Synchron Strings Player. 

    Let's get more Synchron Strings 1 feedback, and satisfaction level score on this forum thread from users. 


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    @Piotr Katzpersky said:

    But there are bigger in terms of content (and lighter on resources) libraries for less. So if VSL would say "we are giving money back for synchrons", I would take them without hesitation. I guess it sums things up.

    +1. To me, the biggest disappointment is how VSL treated its customers, almost treating us like its enemies rather customers.

    All of our concerns were never addressed. They were mostly ignored. The ONLY time VSL responded was the LEGATO BLUR (the ultimate cosmetic touchup). If it were only a TEMP solution, I could have empathized a little more.

    While the MIX page is a great addition, that tree structure is nothing more than a gimmick, but considered how many switches it requires to make an articulation switch, it reveals how poorly thought out the player is. I like the relational aspects of the tree, but it is nothing really more advanced than the original VI matrices. They could have used color codes to show such relations on a matrix, and  added the MIX page to VI and call it a day.

    If VSL stays numb as they have been, this library will surely end my VSL journey.


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    @stephen limbaugh said:

    If anyone here wants to sell their Synchron Strings (FULL) version, PM me.  We can go to VSL together and see if we can organize a license transfer (we need their permission to do so I believe).

    I've got the standard version, so just need the upgrade 😉

    I'm serious about this by the way.  I'm not writing 4 chord takio drum 8 unison horn music and could use a library built for detailed polyphonic music, which this one does.  If those highs and surrounds sound as good on the strings as they do on the CFX, I'll be in good shape.


  • 8 This Library has many well sounding Articulations. To say that all Legati are crap ... ? Listen to the Soft Legato ... very nice and emotional play here! The only Statement I do agree is, that the slurred Legato has a pretty unemotional Slur. Yep, and we need more „Movement“. The effects have shown that „movement“ like scaleruns make this Library pretty hot. I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope) And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library. I would not sell anything now, because ... just imagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... [b]the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both. [/b] Think about it before you sell what you have.

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    @LAJ said:

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    I would not sell anything now, because ... just emagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both.

    I'm not selling either. But I would give them back if there would be an option 😉 Or maybe there should be an exchange program - library for a library of equal or lower value?

    Anyway, if there will be an expansion pack I would need to buy another ssd for that, not mentioning RAM upgrade. And why should I invest more money into Synchron Strings if - in general - they dissapoinited me? I'm glad that this nigthmare of a release is over though. Now I'm going to write some crap music.

    Free portamento expansion would be nice though and for that I can find additional 10GBs of space 😉


  • @Piotr I do agree that the Synchron Series is a Hardware-Challenge for all of us. That‘s why I hope that Package 3 will be a total match! I count on the VSL Employees and that they know this. SSD prices are falling at the moment because of last years high-demand-„overproduction“ and a much lower demand since a few weeks. It seems that the pricedrop will reach a peak in Q3 and demand and prices will rise again. Time to invest ;)

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    @LAJ said:



    I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope)

    And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library.

    But even if such an expansion came out - we would be talking about a package that requires close to terrabyte of disk space and would end up costing perhaps, what? Close to 1500 bucks in total? Only to deliver the same stuff that can be had elsewhere for half that price while being 1/10 of it in size. And you gotta admit, the least senseful thing to do after getting burnt on a purchase is to plan on investing even more in the same product. 😊

    The way I see it, SyS needs an overhaul at its core - technically as well as "philosophically".


  • Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.

    Even if everybody here might know that I am far from being the greatest fan of the Way Guy Bacos makes his demo snippets all knew from them for month how this library might sound. No one here has complained any of his little examples. If you have difficulties now to do the same with even a much more powereful playerengine, who might be to blame for???

    On the other hand keep in mind it is just a couple of hours that I finished the download for the Synchron-Player-Samples. Before I would judge my satrisfaction, I at least would like to have had the chance to establish my own workflow with the new library and its player engine.

    This is the reason why sometimes i remind my "old friend" William who is asking those who are the loudest in criticising, for their own musical examples. to be able to evaluate based on what knowledge someone criticises.

    Please keep in mind VSL-Samplelinbraries are musical instruments. You should learn to play them otherwise you are in danger to resemble the one who blame the Steinway for not playing Chopin for you by it self. What means the more powerful a library and Software is, the more you have to decide and the more it is up to your knowledge what yoiu can get out of it.

    I personally have some doubts that anyone could have had until now time enough to really learn and explore all possibilities to get good results.

    So here is my suggestion. Do not simply rant without any concrete example what you are talking about. Better give us all some days or better weeks to accustom ourself on the new software and library, learn to build good templartres, expressionmaps etc. and than let us compare what all of us have been able to make out of it, and which iomprovements we really would like to have. 

    The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download.

    HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.


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    @Another User said:

    The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download

    It is not an oustanding product and the feedback is warranted. If they have employees working for them that think this is a good string library for 2018, then that is very worrying.


  • I hope that after the disappointing Synchron Strings, that VSL will return to focusing on the Dimension series as their flagship line. If DS had the positives of SyS (increased velocity layers etc) it would destroy everything else on the market even more than it does already. In my opinion the Synchron line should be limited to percussive instruments, pianos etc. Anytime Xfades or legatos are needed, dry libs are the way to go. MIR Synchron Stage sounds great, and the different lines can be easily merged in this way. I still prefer the versatility of the silent stage for percussion/keyboard instruments though, despite how good as Synchron percussion/pianos sound and how playable they are. I would happy trade my SyS license for a preorder deposit on DS3, even if I have to continue to wait for a few more years lol.

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    @fahl5 said:

    Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.

    ...

    HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.

    I agree fahl5, and I wrote a "RECOMMENDATION" post about it... LOL 😊

    The VI Pro has always been the most flexible and powerful player on the market for years: Play is totally unflexible, and Kontakt is complex and intricate being a platform for development... both of them often not 100% reliable... so VSL in my opinion did it again, and Synchron Player is the most easy to arrange and the more flexible patch builder and sample player I've ever seen. It's my opinion, but I think it's almost undisputable after you spend just few minutes reading instructions watching videos and more important, experimenting with it.

    But...

    - sounds artifacts and naive solutions are still evident and objective: I can't blame customers being disappointed, as I was.

    - demos were already a bit weak... I had the hope they were made under pressure with unfinished product just to accellerate pre-sales and start pre-funding the expensive project. Now I realize some limits in the sound are unfortunately enbedded in the way the samples are layered. Extreme use of cross-fades and sample overlappings, even if made with advanced sound engineering, is a step back, is not a quantum leap. The probelm is even bigger due to the fact samples are wet, and everybody knows that it adds complexity for sound engineering and developers, to properly connect and blend them. This is again an almost undisputable criticism we can't blame customers for. The sound of cross fading and overlapping samples too often is going close to a "big-sample-synth-keyboard" of the 90's or early 2000 lybraries, and it's not the sound you expect from VSL.

    - VI Pro was more transparent and technical... I'm missing in the EDIT window the level of details you had in the VI Pro advanced mode... looking how many samples play, how and when, how many and what variations, how a patch is created and finally manipulating every little ingredient to the extreme detail. Now it's obvious Synchron Player has another target, and aim for semplicity and "non-disclosure" of tricks... (but let me be a bit malicious, even because some tricks are not very nice to be disclosed, IMVHO).

    Then due to the fact some "pure" samples in the lybrary are fantastic (not surprising, because great musicians and great technicians produced them), and the player is a fantastic concept, I still hope in the future. But now I have to join the number of disappointed people, with the already objective arguments we had above.

    P.S. For the peace of people "Wiliam-like" I posted already music made with Synchron and compared with things I achieved with Chamber, Orchestral and Dimension strings. Working on projects in DAW and in Notation, the most valuable new feature of Synchron Strings is consistency and dynamic balance. It really saves your time and sounds in good balance immediately, so you can spend time refining expression and phrasing instead of fixing dynamic inconsistencies across sections and articulations... I hope going ahead I will confirm this great feeling I had working with Synchron. My 2 (and one-half...) cents.


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    @Another User said:

    It is not an oustanding product

    From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.

    I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.


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    @Another User said:

    It is not an oustanding product

    From a technical point of view it definitly is above everything else available. Just to pretend the opposite, does not show very much insight in the current market of orchestral samplelibraries.

    I am still not very convinced yet from rantings like that.

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.


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    @Eptesicus said:

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.

    The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.


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    @Eptesicus said:

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.

    The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.

     

    I have tried it. I cannot get this to deliver as convincing or realistic performance as other string libraries, and seemingly no one else can.

    Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?


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    @Eptesicus said:

    The single most important thing for a sample library is how it sounds. For a string library like this, you want it to sound like real strings are performing (or as close to that as possible).

    It doesnt matter how "technically advanced" it is if it cant get the basics correct, or if all the layers and round robins don't deliver an improved performance.

    The most important thing with technic is that you must learn to use it. Before trying that, you simply dont know what you are talking about.

     

    Do you think legto-slur is normal? The most important thing of string music is legtoslur. Don't run away from reality.


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    @yilalatavsl said:

    Do you think legto-slur is normal? The most important thing of string music is legtoslur. Don't run away from reality.


    One important thing for me is terminology. Legato slur is nothing new, it's the same patch we all know from the previous libraries and must not be mixed up with slurred legato. The real slurred legato (which you are referring to) for me is fingered legato, which is actually the normal legato. Legato slur is just a bit more pronounced with some portamento, more blurred. I think this terminology is and ever was misleading. Maybe I'm wrong.


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    @Eptesicus said:

    Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?

    I just think as I already pointed out several times, that just a couple hours after finishing the last download seem to me much to early to pretend, to know all about the right setup, settings, handling, and usage of every possihble option to be able to judge it's limits. I simply do not want to judge anything before trying hard, to get what I want in real project contexts.

    I do have the imnpression that the most important difference between constructive critic and complains and ranting is the ability to become concrete in every necessary detail. And yes I believe you must have tried and explored all settings and reasonable combinations in realproject context, to be ready for conrete and constructive improvement suggestions.

    I fear often more or less ranting complains are based on a often nearly irrational idealistic demand of what a product should be.

    To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.

    As I said I am currently still a good part away from concerns about how useful which single function is, since I still prepare some ambitious projects to explore it.. And of course I will give my feedback about what my impression is to work with. But somehow I simply have the impression, that complaining a product just a few moments after finishing the download seem to be in grerat danger to be simply superficial.


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    @Eptesicus said:

    Why do you think so many people who own the library are disappointed/complaining if the library doesn’t have some fundamental flaws?

    To be realistic one should better start, from what a product can be. If you know any better product - go for it no problem. If you have any concrete suggestions for improvements let us know but just complaining "buhuhu it is not ideal enough for me" tires me really.

     

    But that isnt what people are doing. There is a lot of detailed criticism in this thread that i agree with (so no point in just writing it again).

    The legato needs to be totally redone and the articulations like sfz need to be properly done as well.

    From what I can hear, the legato doesnt work because they seemingly can't get the recorded transition to sit properly inbetween the two related sustains. The attacks on the sustains are too much, especially for the non - soft ones so the normal legato, especially, just doesnt sound like legato at all. The transition is almost inaudible, and then you get this big attack at the start of the next note. That is why it doesnt sound realistic or musical.

    Many libraries record the transitions going into a seperate/new sustain, which often sounds more natural and connected. Or, if they do it Syncrhon's way, they do a much better job of editing/crossfading the sustains and transitions.

    If VSL don't have the expertise to execute the legato in the way they have done with Syncrhon, then they shouldnt have tried to do it that way.