@Cyril Blanc said:

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Hello Andi,

Can we have that list of requirements

Dorico Expression Maps is compatible with Cubase Expression Maps, VSL is compatible with Cubase Expression Maps, it is strange that VSL is not compatible with Dorico's Expression Maps

Thanks

Daniel S. said that Dorico's use of Cubase Xmaps is not yet fully implemented and gave no indication of when that would happen. Because Dorico 2 add film scoring tools and many film scorers use VSL, I would imagine it won't be too long before Dorico and VSL are working fully together. For me they mostly work well together, enough for me to have exported all my Finale and Sibelius to MusicXML and made plans to end my Sib subscription. 

**Leigh

@leigh said:

Daniel S. said that Dorico's use of Cubase Xmaps is not yet fully implemented and gave no indication of when that would happen.

Where did you see that ?

I have import all Cubase Expression Maps into Dorico, but did not had chance to test them yet !

@leigh said:

Daniel S. said that Dorico's use of Cubase Xmaps is not yet fully implemented and gave no indication of when that would happen.

Where did you see that ?

I have import all Cubase Expression Maps into Dorico, but did not had chance to test them yet !

Daniel's Statement

**Leigh

@Cyril Blanc said:

 

I have import all Cubase Expression Maps into Dorico, but did not had chance to test them yet !

Daniel's Statement

**Leigh

That does not prevent using most of the Expression Maps
My feeling is that VSL does not want to spend developpment time on this, neither on AU V3, neither on NKS.

I am develloping Logic 10.4 Expression Maps for VSL,.

I just cross-graded yesterday (full price is outrageous, but offers are more reasonable), and tested it  few hours.

As a user of Finale and Overture 5, I didn't find the new Dorico Pro2 system better or more convenient yet, too much limitations and strange options, but I decided to invest in it in the hope that hybridation with Cubase sequencing was maybe more solid and in the close future powerfull enough for my needs.

Up to now the MIDI sequencing is not finished yet (the part I was really interested in, because I don't have to publish my score, but producing a good MIDI rendering directly in the composing score is still my dream: only Overture 5 actually really do it, but it's not yet stable or engineered enough).

The interaction between the MIDI data written in the PIANO-ROLL and CC lane, and the one generated by expression maps and other default interpretation algorithm is out of control, a MIDI definition of the graphic marks is impossible out of the Expression Maps system, and the way the program manages the Dynamic is unlear: the most important thing is the velocity can't be controlled and edited independently, and the way the default system do it is disputable (e.g. you pick CC or Velocity, as main dynamic control... but what about all the lybraries or VI using Velocity for attack, and CC for expression? etc. etc.).

At the end it's still possible writing or importing Expression Maps and adapt them with simple editing (e.g. legato and sustain have slightly different definition and must be rearranged in Dorico format if you import a map from Cubase) and for the very generic tasks it's possible to get decent playback reducing to Keyswitch only the Expression Map activity, and editing dynamics manually in the CC lane. But it's not the easy, authomatized and streamlined workflow you should expect from this Brand, at this price point.

Let's see what's the future, it doesn't seem to be rocket science to adapt some Cubase features to the actual Dorico Pro2 application. I hope they won't limiti it just for marketing decisions...

Thanks Fatis, that's very informative.

Hello Andi

can you reply to my previous mail :

Hello Andi,

Can we have that list of requirements

Dorico Expression Maps is compatible with Cubase Expression Maps, VSL is compatible with Cubase Expression Maps, it is strange that VSL is not compatible with Dorico's Expression Maps

Thanks

I think Dorico is still a moving target in this respect, and they're waiting for something solid before putting energy into it.

@Bill said:

I think Dorico is still a moving target in this respect, and they're waiting for something solid before putting energy into it.

Why do you answer for Andi ?

Are you a member of VSL team ?

Hello Cyril!

Please understand that I don't want to fully post this internal information on a public forum. I can give you an example though. So far it's not possible to make sfz or fp trigger the according articulations in our instruments. These notation marks can only modify the dynamics.

I also want to remind you that we try to have a friendly tone here. Two of your posts in this thread are close to an insult.

Best regards,
Andi

I fear, the fact, that there seem to be currently no velocity-Editor in the Dorico Player-Section, is something what can make it currently a bit difficult to work with VSL as we want to.

@fahl5 said:

I fear, the fact, that there seem to be currently no velocity-Editor in the Dorico Player-Section, is something what can make it currently a bit difficult to work with VSL as we want to.

Yes there is ; look a bit better in the Play section

If my memory is good you can also use pppp to ffff

Well the picture you show is actually about note lenght, and not velocity! Whre should it be the velocity editor? I didn't find it, so if you did, please let us know! 😊

@fahl5 said:

I fear, the fact, that there seem to be currently no velocity-Editor in the Dorico Player-Section, is something what can make it currently a bit difficult to work with VSL as we want to.

Yes there is ; look a bit better in the Play section

If my memory is good you can also use pppp to ffff

Sorry I thought I understood Daniel Spreadbuury right, in the Thread "Look of the velocity for single notes"

Where he answered for Dorico 1.12 "This is not currently possible in Dorico, but it is planned for the future."

However like the pretty limited Tempocurveeditor the solution for Velocityediting which is available now does not seem to me yet a really satisfying solution at least as far as the score gets a bit more complex.

So I understand why still for Dorico 2 the user ask nevertheless for "Note velocity lane, please"

I expect that User demands will bring Dorico closer to what we have in Cubase for Midiediting but imho we have not reached that point yet.

You say:

"There are two parts on the note, the velocity is blue surrounded by orange..."

Then I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Read the manual and/or experiment yourself: it's the note duration "as played" over the note duration "as written".

(Why do you defend so strongly a misunderstanding without verifying it before confirming wrong assumptions by the way?)

@Cyril Blanc said:

Can you explain why there is this pref in Dorico

This is the authomatic management of dynamics: you may decide the dynamic curve across expression marks.

It will affect velocities or CC according your choice or the Expression Maps choice (velocity or CC): that's probably why an independent velocity editor is not implemented yet: it would conflict with authomatic rule, and so a more complex code has to be written to manage mismatch and assign priorities.

Anyway it's not rocket science and several other programs have fixed it already for years, that's why I complained that Dorico is still too primitive and limited for the actual ambitious target they have.

They are focusing on note-writing first... and in this field the program is already very advanced. I just hope they will fill the gap in MIDI editing ASAP.

But up to now, no way. I understand why VSL is waiting for better feedback and fixes by Steinberg before they spend excessive time.

@fahl5 said:

Sorry I thought I understood Daniel Spreadbuury right, in the Thread "Look of the velocity for single notes"

Where he answered for Dorico 1.12 "This is not currently possible in Dorico, but it is planned for the future."

However like the pretty limited Tempocurveeditor the solution for Velocityediting which is available now does not seem to me yet a really satisfying solution at least as far as the score gets a bit more complex.

So I understand why still for Dorico 2 the user ask nevertheless for "Note velocity lane, please"

I expect that User demands will bring Dorico closer to what we have in Cubase for Midiediting but imho we have not reached that point yet.

You don't have to apologize, you understand correctly, no velocity editing yet.

The actual possible workflow is:

- let expression map manage correct keyswitches

- let dynamic curve manage velocity (then all the expression map articulations must be checked with "Velocity" only)

- adjust manually all the CC in the CC lane.

This will go very close to your intentions, but only until the velocity and expression are going in the same direction. If you want to use velocities for attack and CC for expression independently, you will face some issues (because all pp will have very low velocity and all ff will have very high velocity etc. etc.)