@michi said:

we recorded the full range, you are talking about the flageolett sounds. as herb and martin mentioned, whatever we are recording right now, will be part of the next release. there are additional recordings for tenor and alto, but we are not going to share our articulation lists to the public, before the product is finished. i hope this points are clear now, all the best, michael hula

Is the lack of "flageolett" sounds in SAX 1 the reason the range seems a bit on the sort side when compared with many actual sax solos?

Just wondering, because I often find it impossible to mimick many solos do to the range coming up short....

Thanks
TH

the most common saxophon is the alto, and most soli are performed with it, even mr. clinton does! [[;)]] so far we can say from our experiences during our recordings, the alto has a smooth transition to the flageolett range, and we recorded every articulation to the highest high. the flageoletts with the tenorsax and the soprano sounds different to the rest of the scale, so we decided, not to go for it in saxophones 1.

Are you referring to the "altissimo ranges" as flagolett?

They do have a much different sound. Really anything into the palm keys, above high C# in instrument key, has a different timbre entirely. No need to stray away from them though....that's the reality of the horns. If they sound to pristine...they don't sound real.

All the modern saxophones should cover the identical span between instrument Low Bb to High F# (or F on some old models high G on some newer) with the exception of the half-step Low A (C concert on the baritone). Basses until recent years often lacked some of the upper palm keys, but anything low Bb to high F# should be fair game nowadays. Everything above that is altissimo...beyond the normal range of the horn and created by many fingerings and air techniques to sound the higher overtones...they don't sound the same because they can't...they even lack most of the dynamic range of the rest of the horn. A high G will pop pretty good on Alto and Bari without rocking the ship...but it won't be a smooth transition in most cases. There is considerable timbral difference between an open C# and a closed D...and big changes in the palms...but like I said...I think that's the beauty of the beast. You ought to have the C# horribly out of tune on each horn too, just so no one gets their hopes up on unrealistic intonation.

By the way I was always referring to instrument keys not concert pitch. Bass in Bb, Baritone in Eb, Tenor in Bb, Alto in Eb, and Soprano in Bb...sorry if it confused anyone.

What is the range of the Saxophone 1 instruments anyway?

both instruments are recorded from low G# to high E, which is the complete range of the instruments we used. everything beyond the high E is the flageolett range, which is not yet released. you have to keep in mind, that our first target with saxophones 1 was, to fit into orchestral context plus some bonus patches for modern styles. there are no news so far, our next saxophone release is work in progress, and the input of our customers is highly appreciated, so thank you for your comments!

Cool, that would be full range low Bb to high F#. I wonder why aeroevans thinks the range is limited...must be trying to mock-up jazz things with screamers in the altissimo.

I gotta admit, I just can't get used to you calling the altissimo "flageolett"...it just seems too proper. I'm sure its probably what they call it in many places outside of the US and France, but its so wierd to have someone refer to a technique on your professional instrument that you've never heard referred to that way. I've been a professional saxophonist for over 10 years, and I have my Bachelor's and Master's in Music...I've played with saxophonists from all over the world, never Vienna to be honest...mostly UK, Japan, and France, but never have I heard "flageolett" for the extended range. Even a Noweigan guy that sent me a list of extended range fingerings for the baritone sax called them altissimo. We think of other playing techniques when we think of harmonics...multi-phonics are produced in a completely different way then brass...harmonics. Vocalizing against a vibrating reed doesn't work...well it does if you want to growl or scream.

Anyway...just thought I'd share my mental issues.

@saxophone4 said:

What is the range of the Saxophone 1 instruments anyway?

How can your user name be saxophone4 and you NOT have the VSL saxophone patches! j/k [:)]

Sorry to spoil the party, but when i did my BAmus it was called Flageolett, and the Professor in question was pretty sharp on anyone wo didn't refer to it by it's proper name.
And that was 26 years ago!

Regards,

Alex

I said I'm sure its called that by many folks, just none of the ones I've worked with. Did you study in Russia? For example do a web search on saxophone altissimo and you'll find thousands of hits...do a web search on saxophone flageolett and you'll find nothing in English or French...but a few in German and many referring to the instrument. All of my teahcers were French school and studied with Jean-Marie Londeix and Eugene Rousseau...etc. Who did you study with? Could just be a different school of thought or nationality thing.

As I said, I never said it was wrong...I found it fascinating that with a bachelor's and a master's and 8 years as an educator that no one ever referred to it as such in my vicinity. I actually find it quite humorous how much it annoys me....it be like telling someone you that you had called your mom the wrong name for 20 years and that everyone else in the world with half a brain calls her Dad.

I don't own the saxes currently because I don't find the VSL Saxophones to useful at this time with only 2 instruments. Having the tenor and soprano before the alto and bari is just not real productive for the work I would need it for. I actually find my own samples of saxophone much more user friendly at this time for wind ensembles. The tenor vibrato limits the VSL samples to solo work or quartet...and the harsh velocity jumps in the tenor also limit it. My friend who composes for marching bands and wind ensembles has the VSL saxes, and he uses my samples with his opus 1 instruments because the VSL tenor won't blend with its constant vibrato and erratic timbral changes with slight velocity changes. Saxes don't play with that tone in a band. My baritone, tenor, and alto are the only ones he has found that will accurately work for wind ensemble and marching band works.

If I wanted to do a Lethal Weapon style score....I would be all over it. But the current library isn't what I need.

The quality of the library is awesome, as everything VSL is. But the choice of samples and techniques is a mystery to me.

@saxophone4 said:

Cool, that would be full range low Bb to high F#. I wonder why aeroevans thinks the range is limited...must be trying to mock-up jazz things with screamers in the altissimo.

I gotta admit, I just can't get used to you calling the altissimo "flageolett"...it just seems too proper. I'm sure its probably what they call it in many places outside of the US and France, but its so wierd to have someone refer to a technique on your professional instrument that you've never heard referred to that way. I've been a professional saxophonist for over 10 years, and I have my Bachelor's and Master's in Music...I've played with saxophonists from all over the world, never Vienna to be honest...mostly UK, Japan, and France, but never have I heard "flageolett" for the extended range. Even a Noweigan guy that sent me a list of extended range fingerings for the baritone sax called them altissimo. We think of other playing techniques when we think of harmonics...multi-phonics are produced in a completely different way then brass...harmonics. Vocalizing against a vibrating reed doesn't work...well it does if you want to growl or scream.

Anyway...just thought I'd share my mental issues.

I do soundalikes a lot of times for Karoke companies who hire me to do Broadway shows, etc. I just did a couple recently where the saxes fell short range wise. I didn't really think of the solos as screamers...

Thanks
TH

They just must be going slightly into the altissimo range then...not unheard of for Broadway stuff. I was curious because it appears that Saxophones I covers the full true fingered range of the soprano and tenor.

Even pop tunes tend to have a few altissimo notes in the saxophone solos.