If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem.That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread.
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If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem.
That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread.Right. Then discuss, but no need to counter someone's opinion just because they offered one you disagree with.
This is why forums aren't considered viable places for discussion for many of us - "how a forum works" currently isn't how constructive, respectful dialogue works. That is one reason I (and most of my colleagues that I know of) don't spend much time on forums anymore; also simply too busy. And here I am being reminded why I don't usually post on forums. Back to work.
Congrats to VSL on Synchron! Love the stage too - hope to record there at some point.
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Hi Fabio,
Thanks for the information. Is this the same Fabio from the GPO community!?
Regards,
RichardI just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?
Hi Richard,
nice to meet you again! Yes I confirm it: yesterday i did quite a bit of experiments with Dimension and Chamber strings and MIR Pro. I wasn't able of replicating the nice sonic balance of Synchron strings default stereo mix, that always sounds better than any of my attempt to mix in MIR Pro old lybraries then finally I consider it a real added value (it was my main doubt buying the lybrary).
ciao, Fabio.
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It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..
There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.
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It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..
There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.
I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.
The one you mentioned is just one exemple of phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...).Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.
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I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.
The one you mentioned is just one exemple of phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...). Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.
Thank you for the phase course, buddy... Phase effects are everywhere or we would have one single ear or even we would never use any natural nore artificial reverb. And we would throw all our synths to the trash. And we would never use any recording of the ocean on the beach.
If crossfading between two layers should be a problem, mixing two similar sources should always be a problem too. Phase effect always occur everywhere in a stereo field. It may be more or less prominent but never a "phase issue" we can encounter with one single sample. And I disagree with your rule "phases are a problem when crossfading between velocity layers", as soon as they're made of different samples.
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Deterios surdus eo nullus, qui renuit audire.
Sure my ears lost a few high kHz all those years... That said I still can (and like to) hear different opinions as soon as they're argued, that's called debate and knowledge sharing. But when it goes to the pupil game "you did it first". Or ends up with a pejorative latin motto... What do you really know about my ears, btw?
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If crossfading between two layers should be a problem, mixing two similar sources should always be a problem too. Phase effect always occur everywhere in a stereo field. It may be more or less prominent but never a "phase issue" we can encounter with one single sample. And I disagree with your rule "phases are a problem when crossfading between velocity layers", as soon as they're made of different samples.
Think of it like this: When playing one sample of 8 violins, you hear 8 violins. If you mix (crossfade) this by 50% with another sample of 8 violins, you hear a composite of 16 violins. It's more apparent with crossfading solo strings (where you will suddenly hear 2 instruments when mixing two samples), however the same effect still applies to ensembles. It may not bother you, but it's hard to deny that it's an issue.
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Think of it like this: When playing one sample of 8 violins, you hear 8 violins. If you mix (crossfade) this by 50% with another sample of 8 violins, you hear a composite of 16 violins. It's more apparent with crossfading solo strings (where you will suddenly hear 2 instruments when mixing two samples), however the same effect still applies to ensembles. It may not bother you, but it's hard to deny that it's an issue.
Where does it have anything to see with the phase ?
And who could say, while crossfading between two layers of a large ochestra : "I heard it, there were double the number of violins in the middle of the note !"... Seriously... Btw what will you do with the SyStrings if you want some divisi ?
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And who could say, while crossfading between two layers of a large ochestra : "I heard it, there were double the number of violins in the middle of the note !"... Seriously...
If you crossfade from one single sample to another single sample then the impact is the least. But if you don't take such care, you'll stay in between samples, meaning that most of the time you can hear more instruments playing than in the original samples. Of course this has impact on the sound, but like I said, it's a bigger problem with solo instruments.
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Hi Fabio,
Thanks for the information. Is this the same Fabio from the GPO community!?
Regards,
Richard[quote=fatis12_24918;268605]
Yes, "but it was long, long time ago..." (Cit.) 😊
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If you crossfade from one single sample to another single sample then the impact is the least. But if you don't take such care, you'll stay in between samples, meaning that most of the time you can hear more instruments playing than in the original samples. Of course this has impact on the sound, but like I said, it's a bigger problem with solo instruments.
Please post a demo of what you say, maybe I miss something...Here's a demo with SyStrings Violin & Cellos
I used LSXL Violins & Cellos, with both velocity Xfade and slotX (so double crossfade at the same time, velocity and vib/no vib)... Can you hear any phase issue or instruments number doubling ? Btw, the phase is regularly in between like any single original sample as it can be seen on the Goniometer. MIRacle Synchron Enhance applied.
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I was not talking about phaser pedals... You just seem out to pick a fight and don't make any effort to understand what I mean. I'll pass.
1- I'm not here to "pick a fight". I'm just fed up with people saying anything and everything without any concrete argue.
2- "Phasing" has everything to see with phaser pedals. And strictly nothing with doubling. Just take the right words, I'll be very pleased to understand then.
3- Can you just hear the issues you said before on my demo ? Just no, or yes and why and where. It's that simple.
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Away from the whole discussion, what beautiful sound is this! Man, man, I can't help, but how beautiful is this!
Thank you MMKA, it's just nothing, two string lines I did to explain what I'm trying to say. I spent some time to edit the velocity and slotX CCs a bit, nothing more 😉
I think the sound of the Synchron is really great, subtile and rich.
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Away from the whole discussion, what beautiful sound is this! Man, man, I can't help, but how beautiful is this!
Thank you MMKA, it's just nothing, two string lines I did to explain what I'm trying to say. I spent some time to edit the velocity and slotX CCs a bit, nothing more 😉
I think the sound of the Synchron is really great, subtile and rich.
I really can't get why you have to be so presumptuous, when it's clear you are not a technician at all.
You have not concrete arguments neither.
I don't want to enter the "doubling" argue, even if I can tell you that doubling HAS to do with phasing. Actually it's because of phasing addition and subtraction that you get a richer signal as a result of a voice doubling.
Also, this argue started because someone asked why if you turn on Velocity xfade, VI PRO blanks out 2 layers.
I said that in this way it was possible for programmers to achieve crossfading between layers. With too many layers it's hard/impossible.
I'm not the perfect person to explain why, especially not to you; as I already said, there's none so deaf as those who will not hear.
The example you posted means nothing. Of course VSL provided us with a library with no issues.
And let me also say that if your Goniometer would notify phase problems while you play an orchestral library, it wouldn't mean there's a problem with layers crossfading, but probably that the stereo recording of those samples are not mono-compatible.
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And let me also say that if your Goniometer would notify phase problems while you play an orchestral library, it wouldn't mean there's a problem with layers crossfading, but probably that the stereo recording of those samples are not mono-compatible.
The Goniometer was there to show there was no phase issue while crossfading. And you wrote that "phases are a problem" when crossfading between velocity layers, or did I dream it ?