Well Paul to address your post in order - my signature tells everyone who I am but your continuing adjectives tend to rule out congeniality. BTW I suggest you do not click on my site as there are some pieces there that will not be to your taste, but you and everyone else are welcome to call me whatever you like, I only ask that you keep it civil if you want reasoned debate.From what you write, I can't seem to escape the conclusion that you seem to think atonality and tonality do not mix whether it be musically or regarding someones creative preferences. I believe you are wrong on these points , firstly because I am not going to 'trash' your preferences and instead agree with you about the composers you have mentioned - although it is duly noted that the best you can come up with in a thread instigated by an appreciation of Salonen is Howard Shore who is of course a great film composer, but some here might consider his ouvre to be a little off-topic when considering the highest aspirational realms of our practice, if only because film scorings raison d'etre imposes a utility on self-expression, which is in the main absent in the concert world. (I do not want to digress too much here, but accept that there is a good argument against this that suggests that the desire for self expression in film scoring can be quenched in practice, but as this thread is not about film scoring I shall leave it there).
Secondly, your assumption that the 2 technical practices (tonal -atonal) are mutually exclusive is completely fallacious because one is surely an all-encompassing extension of the other and when used competently gives the composer a wide expressive arc - all that is needed are adventurous ears and a willingness to search.
Your assertion that atonality is old and therefore not a way forward is a subjective conclusion based on your antipathy and is not factual nor predicated on the reality of current practice. The fact is that atonality and tonality exist side by side in todays zeitgeist and can even be combined very successfully. You really are missing out on wonderful music Paul, music that has extended levels of functioning harmonic practice that is not proscriptive in a dodecaphonic sense. This makes me wonder if your definition of atonality is the same as mine and many of the great composers of shall we say the last 60 years, but if you haven't listened to any of their music, how are you to know and even insult their work convincingly.
For once I agree fully with the paragraph starting with your propositions for young composers. Some will venture into atonality and find a seductive world of possibilities.
Hi Mike,
I'm sorry that I did not see your name on your posts. No insult was intended, and if I made a mistake with pronouns, I appologize for that as well. Of course I do not appologize for my opinions and conclusions regarding music. I am passionate about the subject.
I'm not sure if you wanted any sort of reply, I want you to know that I read your entire post very carefully.If there is something you want to debate or discuss, I am willing to do so. I am not going to change my conclusions about tonality and atonality, and I sense that you also are firm in your point of view. So that topic is probably a waste of time. But I am open to a discussion of any other musical topic. Regarding Howard Shore, he many not be innovative, but he is certainly a master of his craft. However, as I anticipated in my email, I expected you simply were asking me "who I rate" so that you could then trash them. That is OK, totally to be expected.
I'm glad we can agree about advice to young composers. It is in that vein that I was describing the fact that atonality is old. Many young composers idiolize the gound breaking inovator. I know I did. Many younng composers want to be relevant and current. I know I did. But writing atonal music is not going to make a composer today an inovator or relevant. Why not? Because atonality is old. It is no more of an innovation to write atonal music than to write Baroque or Romantic music. If the young composer wants to write atonal music because that is what they personally like to hear and they want to be a perfector, like Mozart, then great. They could have a solid future. University composition teachers are retiring and dieing off every day leaving room for new atonal composers. So I think composers should forget about being an innovator (unless they truly can come up with something totally original) and focus on perfecting their craft, writing the kind of music that they personally enjoy.
Paul T. McGraw
Paul,
I have no truck with your opinion whatsoever, merely the seeming vitriol your adjectives convey because they appear brutally contentious and insensitive, but I respect your passion as I know it too. No problem about missing my signature and your apology is happily accepted - now if only I could get you to listen to some good representative music from more recent decades...😉
Joking aside, you may have missed the point that atonality is just one facet of compositional technique employed today and used as a resource it is as powerful as it was 100 or so years ago. I agree that composers' should not worry about innovation as that quality is only gifted to a few each century, but they should explore every development in music to date in order to be well informed when making a decision as to where their artistry lies. I also agree that composers should perfect their craft as much as possible and especially in the familiar gravitational confines of tonality. Now here is an irony of sorts, I believe that a composer who feels the pull (or lack thereof !) of atonality should, at the very least, be extremely well versed in the common practice. This a personal belief/conviction and based on my own experience. When one learns the great tradition, one is also training oneself in best practice and this gives a solid foundation with which to submit oneself to the inner fantasy that can be had whilst composing - a flight of fancy that is sure in the knowledge that technical prowess and procedure will guide it subliminally to make an idea presentable and musical whilst allowing freedom of expression.....or in other words a reasonble way of hoping to achieve an art work. A somewhat strained metaphor might be the Renaissance painters who in their formative years had to paint in minimal or no colour in order to master value or chiaroscuro so that their glazing would literally have a solid foundation. OK....calm down, I'm not saying tonality is pale in comparison to atonality, but I hope you get my point.
My belief here feels appropriate to modern musical language and yet it dismays me that Academia tends to think otherwise - more agreement - at this rate we'll soon be best buddies.
www.mikehewer.com