Paul,

@Paul said:

You can also keep your sustain pedal pressed and retrigger the sustained note to force a bow-change (this will switch to a repeated note in legato mode automatically).

I tried the sustain pedal trick, both with the SE default and the Sibelius SE preset/matrix. I tried both the sustain and the performance legato articulations. I tried with the pedal always down, or just pressed just before the retriggering of the note, and then releasing it.

However, what I get is that several notes continue to stack up, as if the damper pedal was kept pressed with a synthesizer.

Is there a video tutorial, or some more in depth instructions for this topic? I'm trying to do this long notes/legato thing, but am not yet able to do it.

Thank you!

Paolo

@Another User said:

Is there a video tutorial, or some more in depth instructions for this topic? I'm trying to do this long notes/legato thing, but am not yet able to do it.

The basic idea is to press the sustain pedal (CC64 up) before the note transition and let it go afterwards (CC64 down). The sustain pedal trick will let the sample sound on, while a new attack is triggered on the same note. Without a note-off signal or the CC64 going down, the note would sound on "indefinitely". If you hear different notes stacking, could it be, that other notes (e.g. on the same track) are affected by the pedalling?

Cheers

LuCsa wrote:
I have a question about this... Since the time stretching is no real time operation, I assume you "prepare" a time-stretched version of a sustain/legato patch, put it into a free slot in the "normal" sustain/legato cell and Slot-X-fade in between them?

Indeed you "prepare" a time-stretched version. I put it always in another cell. With keyswitches I choose the right cell to get the adjusted vibrato. It is also possible to use it in a free slot of the sample and Slot-X-fade in between them. But in this way you have only 2 vibrato options (the adjusted and the not adjusted, Slot-X-fade works just horizontally and not vertically). I use often more than 2 vibrato options in one piece and then you have to work with more cells. For me is working with cells to get more vibrato options the easiest way.

@Another User said:

As you can hear, there is a stacking of notes, with the phasing typical of identical notes playing together. What am I doing wrong?

I'm deeply ashamed to admit that I did not yet discovered that problem. 😐 I never did, so far, more than one rebowing with this technique, where the stacking is not obvious, even less so in conjuction with a moving vel-x-fade controller and so on...

So, I'll sit down next to you and wait for some of the savvies to come by... 🤐

If you're owning the plus version - wouldn't that be a proper situation to use the repetition legatos?

-Lukas

Thank you very much for your hint, Lukas! However, it doesn't work. With the repetition legato articulation, I still get the stacking/phasing result. The only difference is that the sample attack disappears, making the transition smoother.

Still trying to see how this can work.

Paolo

@PaoloT said:

Thank you very much for your hint, Lukas! However, it doesn't work. With the repetition legato articulation, I still get the stacking/phasing result. The only difference is that the sample attack disappears, making the transition smoother.

I think, the repititon-legato patches are used without the sustain pedal...

With very short notes, repetition legato without damper pedal is the closest to the desired effect I could achieve. You have to make the end of the preceeding note very near to the following, without making them overlap. Yet, there is still a marked separation between the notes (it is not played "liscio", but with the intention of playing two legato, yet separated notes).

In addition, repetition legato is extremely short (about 1sec). So, it is not suitable to make long notes with alternating bow.

Maybe Paul can jump in, and explain the procedure in detail? I'm really not able to find a solution.

Paolo

Hi,

Did you check out our video on Performance Repetitions with VI PRO (the last in the list)? Does that help?

Best,
Paul

Hi Paul, thank you for your hint. However, this does not solve the issue of having a longer sustained note. The tutorial seems to only concern staccato notes, with no application to legato situations.

To recap what the original poster (but also myself) would like to do: since solo strings don't have looped sustains, you can't sustain a note indefinitely. Having a note longer than a few quarters is, however, very common.

One of the suggested solutions has been to retrigger the note at the bow change. While more labour-intensive than simply holding a note, this could add to realism. I've not found detailed instructions on how to do it, but I read (it was probably your suggestion) to use the damper pedal to tie the notes.

I tried to push the damper pedal down at the end of the first note, and release it just after the beginning of the second note. The result was a progressive stacking of notes, with the typical phasing effect of identical samples playing together (you can hear it in the sound example I posted).

This happens both with the sustain and repetition legato patches.

Where am I doing it wrong?

Paolo

The best I could do, as of now, is using the legato articulation. No damper pedal, just notes with very little space between them. The effect of re-bowing is very convincing. However, the legato sample lasts just 2.5 seconds. Is it enough for all situations? I see that violin methods have son filé exercises with bowing lasting up to six seconds. The two-slot option (legato xfading to sustain) suggested by Paul seems to be the only solution in this case. Very laborious, but feasible. Paolo

I see that there is another thread on a similar matter: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t19698p2-Legato-solo-strings--no-sustain--weird--note-off--behaviour?= Something that one could try is using the 1 and 2 slots. Slot 1 is legato, Slot 2 is sustain. Slot 2 is delayed, and with a slow attack. Maybe this would automate the remote switching between the two articulations? Paolo

Something that I found could help making rebowing smoother, is to make the release time longer, when a long note is to be played. This can be automated with (by default) CC#23.

Paolo