Thank you for the detailed response!

As far as I understood: Vienna's reverb magic can be used for any audio signal when using VE Pro, is that right?

Kind regards,
Lukas

Hi LuCsa, 

You can also use MIR PRO without VE PRO, if you like, as an insert plug-in on any audio signal. 

Best, 
Paul

Thank you, I just found that out and was about to edit it into my post --> you're too fast! :D

cheers

So...I'm really about to "get one of the MIRx extensions"... :P

I listened through the featured demo songs and I'm a bit unsure which one to choose! Obviously. :D
Therefore, the timid question, I almost don't dare to ask, haha: Which one will offer a good "allround, versatile sound", not too characteristic...? *duck*

At the moment I'm searching a rather "big" sound, or let's say, definitely not chamber music. On the other hand - can a solo piano recital achieve convenient results in a big hall like the Grosser Saal?

At first I was going for one of the bigger halls, Grosser Saal or The Sage..., but, could I infuse some "epicness" into a smaller venue with the aid of an algorithmic reverb?

I overheard in some threads that in MIR one can change the release trails... is this possible in MIRx as well?

And, could someone roughly point out differences in the characteristics of the Grosser Saal and The Sage... my technically untrained ears can't spot them...

Humble greetings :P,
Lukas

PS.: Does bypassing the MIRx take some strain from the CPU?

The most versatile IMO would be Teldex.

It has a bit of oomph to it which is cool, and a nicely colored richness in the tails, but at the same time, it's very compact and tight. Which means that you can set pretty high wet values and the sound will still be crisp, well-defined and albeit "verby", not washy and smudgy at all. On the other side of the spectrum, you can dial in a rather dry setting and the sound will still have nice depth to it. It can actually sound pretty intimate with dryer settings, and solo performances work well too. It also works will in combination with an aditional reverb tail, if you wanted to make it all a bit more lush and spacious.

The scoring stage character also makes it the ideal choice for a that punchy, upfront, more cinematic sound and also works really well if you're using orchestral elements in combination with other stuff, like synths, hybrid percussion, heavy guitars etc. I feel that the "epicness" of film music etc. can be a bit misleading. One would assume that it's about the biggest spaces and richest ambience possible, but the film music sound is actually pretty in-your-face and tight. I think that proper "classical" recordings are actually more about space than "epic" music.

Grosser Saal and the Sage sound similar in size - big orchestra halls. A more "classical" sound here, especially Grosser Saal - much more spacious, rich ambience and a longer tail. The Sage, to my ears, sounds a bit brighter/more hi-mid-rangey and a little more compact, whereas Grosser Saal is very "open". Whatever that means, haha.

Hello, JimmyHellfire. :)

I'm swaying between Teldex and The Sage..., which is a shame since I'm from Vienna, haha. :D
Thanks for your feedback!

The crispier, the better I have to program, I reckon? :P
When we're talking about reverb tails and dry settings and stuff, it's about the wet/dry ratio in the VI instance, right?

Thanks for this insight of the character of film music - my thoughts were misleading in that case...
"Other stuff like synths, hybrid percussion, guitars..." etc would require the MIR Pro, though... :(

It was also my impression that Grosser Saal is a bit more ... of what you called "open", it's not so tight.

But they're all...arggh... :D

@Another User said:

"Other stuff like synths, hybrid percussion, guitars..." etc would require the MIR Pro, though... :(

Not necessarily. In fact, it can also be a terrible idea, depending on what you're doing. Things that come alive in a space, yes - Taikos and whatnot ... but honestly, not having MIR Pro shouldn't stop you from using those instruments anyway. Just make them sit in the mix, who cares how you did it as long as it sounds good?

But not every musical element of a hybrid score should "sit in the space". For example, unless it's for some kind of moody special effect or something ... you DON'T wanna hear recordings of electric guitars on a scoring stage or concert hall. That's terrible. Typically you'd close-mic the cabinet, double- or even quad-track all the parts and pan them way left and right. Stuff like reverb and delay are added via effect units/plug-ins when needed.

Electric bass is even more detached from any kind of "space" most of the time, as it's actually being recorded directly into the recording device, without even micing an amp.

A drum kit surely benefits from a nice sounding space - depending on the style and the type of sound you're after - but even here, we're more like talking about a nice studio space, perhaps a facility with a high ceiling, and using a number of additional room mics in addition to the standard close-mic setup. But you most certainly don't wanna hear a great rock or funk drummer doink away somewhere in the back of a concert hall ... 😃

I don't see why anyone would want synthetic sound sources to sit in some kind of "natural" ambience either. It's completely counterintuitive. Just imagine how silly that wound sound.

@JimmyHellfire said:

[....] I don't see why anyone would want synthetic sound sources to sit in some kind of "natural" ambience either. It's completely counterintuitive. Just imagine how silly that wound sound.

Ha! This is most likely the first time on these pages that I don't agree with you completely, Jimmy. 8-)

As a matter of fact using MIR Pro is a great way to add some "dimension" to otherwise two-dimensional synthetic sounds. And an example, I used the drier MIR Venues like ORF Studio 2 or even Studio Weiler / Stoneroom for some extra "fat" in synth-stabs quite often (... which does wonder on "wall-of-sound"-like power chords from electric guitars, too).

Other scenarios I ran into: Imagine some dry "blips" and "clicks" that melt into an acoustic percussion-set, or a "Lucky Man"-like synth solo that benefits a lot from a huge cathedral, or some airy pad that suddenly gains a choir-like quality from some real space. It goes without saying that all sounds with some kind of "hybrid" appeal that sound quasi-realistic (like you get from Physical Modelling syths) are especially thankful for some MIR treatment. 😉

Just keep in mind that less can be more in these cases, so don't be shy to reduce the dry/wet-ratios to something like 30/70 or even 20/80 in a non-orechstral conetxt.

Kind regards,

@Another User said:

crappy programming will be audible 

How else should it be...? 😄

Thanks for the insights on those aspects. 😊 And also thank you Dietz, for your comment about that. Was it me, who caused a rift in the fabric of the Jimmy-Dietz continuum? 😄 This aspect becomes available MIR Pro only, though...

So, you're voting for Teldex... And I'm swaying between exactly that and Sage (everytime I'm writing Gate, then Slate and then I have to look it up... 🤔)

Kind regards,
Lukas

@Dietz said:

As a matter of fact using MIR Pro is a great way to add some "dimension" to otherwise two-dimensional synthetic sounds. And an example, I used the drier MIR Venues like ORF Studio 2 or even Studio Weiler / Stoneroom for some extra "fat" in synth-stabs quite often (... which does wonder on "wall-of-sound"-like power chords from electric guitars, too).

Other scenarios I ran into: Imagine some dry "blips" and "clicks" that melt into an acoustic percussion-set, or a "Lucky Man"-like synth solo that benefits a lot from a huge cathedral, or some airy pad that suddenly gains a choir-like quality from some real space.

You're right of course and after posting, I in fact thought that I should correct myself because my wording was misleading. I guess it came across as saying " keep synthetic sources bone-dry" and "don't use MIR for non-orchestral sounds".

What I was trying to say that one doesn't necessarily by default need to try and position a synthetic/electric element on the orchestra stage, because even if the orchestral content of a hybrid score was recorded live - the synths, heavy guitars etc. most probably weren't there in the first place, and would have probably sounded weird if they were.

I was thinking of stuff like the Iron Man soundtrack, that has a typical Hollywood orchestral score combined with heavy guitars that sound like you would expect them to sound on a rock record. They obviously didn't have Tom Morello sitting on the stage, somewhere in front of the 1. and 2. violins, with his Tele and Marshall, rocking it out with the orchestra ...  😃

Hello to all,
I would like to purchase one MIRx extension but I am not quite sure which one between the Teldex Scoring Stage or the Mozartsaal is more suited for a chamber like sound, nothing too big or epic.

Thanks a lot in advance for any help.

Best Regards,

Max

Hi and welcome Max,

considering the fact that the Mozartsaal of Vienna Konzerthaus is one of the world's most coveted places for chamber music concerts, I would say that the choice is obvious. ;-)

Teldex Studio Berlin has a beautiful signature sound which you've heard on many recordings, so you might get great results, too, but the settings I've created for its MIRx presets are consciously directed towards a more "cinematic" sound.

Kind regards,

Hi Dietz,

Thanks a lot for your kind reply!

Yesterday I went ahead and purchased the MIRx Teldex Scoring Stage but before the promotion runs out today, I may also get the Mozartsaal.

I would like to ask if in the Vienna Suite (normal version) there are any Teldex and Mozartsaal impulses that can be used with either the convolution or Hybrid reverbs, so I can use them with non VSL libraries to match the space(s) when I use the VSL SE with MIRx.

Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Kind Regards,

Max

Vienna Suite's Convolution Reverb comes with an exemplary IR from Mozartsaal and a small selection of IRs from Teldex Studio, but you will have to decide yourself it that's enough to match MIR. ;-) 

Kind regards,

Hi Dietz,

Thanks a lot for your kind reply!

When you are saying that "but you will have to decide yourself it that's enough to match MIR", you mean that perhaps Vienna Suite is not enough and may need to look into MIR Pro?

Cheers,

Max

@Another User said:

When you are saying that "but you will have to decide yourself it that's enough to match MIR", you mean that perhaps Vienna Suite is not enough and may need to look into MIR Pro?

Well - in the end, it boils down to this. 😉 You might get convincing results as long as you just want to add a few elements which don't necessarly need to find "their own spot" on the stage, but as soon as you try to push several instruments farther away from the listener to clearly defined positions, just adding some generic IRs from the same hall won't do the trick. MIR does so much more than "just reverb" to a signal, and that's hard to mimic with conventional mixing approaches.

... but I suggest that you try the different options yourself! There are 30-days fully functional demos for Vienna Suite and MIR Pro. 😊

Kind regards,

Hello Dietz,

Once again thanks a lot for your help and suggestions!

I am very new when it comes to using reverb and placing instruments in a virtual stage... MIR looks awsome but it is too expensive for me at present.

Will try the free demos and see what results I can achieve.

All the very best,

Max