"I honestly never succeeded in creating a decent solo string part as a final product. I alway's hire musician in that case where interpretation is crucial and complexe."  -  FredB

This statement is somewhat annoying to me.  Partly because this could simply be due to your inability to do a MIDI performance, rather than a problem with the library.  And partly because it is obvious if someone hires a player who is really good, then they will probably be good competition to samples.

However, my experience is very different.  I came from a classical background, was a professional orchestral player on horn for twenty years, and had many live performances of my own works.  But I have never had as good a performance as what I have recently done with VSL.  In fact, I released a song-cycle "Earth and Paradise"  - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/williamkersten  - which was premiered by a chamber orchestra live in a large concert that was well-received and reviewed, but the playing of the orchestra simply was not as good as VSL, and so I re-recorded it with the soprano and VSL for this CD. 

Statements made by people here about how a live player is always better mean very little, since it depends on how good the MIDI performance is, not necessarily on the library.

Though on the original topic of this thread, I agree more samples are always better. 

Hi william,

We just have a different approach. No matter if you use samples or live musicians,  at the end, there is alway's just the music.

I'm not saying the library is the problem and I know it's possible to program a good solo string part. It just takes a lot of times, times that i prefer to spend composing and recording. I do midi programming a lot, everyday long.

When it comes to chamber music or a single solo strings part , I'm more than happy to record some live musicians when it's possible. I like to get out of my studio, write some scores and speak to musician about the music and the movie (I do music for pictures a lot).

Or I could spend this time in my studio trying to get better at programming solo parts. Of coarse.

VSL is an amazing sample library. there's no doubt.

Sample libraries is a tool i need and use everyday to make the music that make me live.

Sometimes I use it just for the composing stage, sometimes it's the final product.  Listeners will not care about if it's live or programmed or both.

Fred

unless anyone else asked for:

- Sul Ponticello also for Chamber and Dimensionstrings

- all Sul Tasto/Flautando for all Stringlibraries

(I still am quite amazed from the embertoneconcept to let the user chose the Bowposition with a slider between Ponticello up to Flautando/Sul Tasto)

- col legno "tratto" ! Why does only the IRCAM Soloists have samples of that interesting way to play! (of course for all strings)

best fahl5

@fahl5 said:

- col legno "tratto" ! Why does only the IRCAM Soloists have samples of that interesting way to play! (of course for all strings)

Probably because it's the most stupid bowing ever invented, and most players would refuse to ruin their bows by attempting it.  😉

DG

That seems to be really an extremly intelligent answer. 😛

However there are several important scores in 20t century music which  are obviously "stupid" enogh to demand exactly that way of playing. And I fear that was the reason what has made the IRCAM-musicians "stupid" enough to produce that kind of Samples for their Soloinstruments.

Btw. Obviously I would also like to have muted Dimension Strings (but do expect that this would be something VSL is already working on)

@fahl5 said:

That seems to be really an extremly intelligent answer. 😛

However there are several important scores in 20t century music which  are obviously "stupid" enogh to demand exactly that way of playing. And I fear that was the reason what has made the IRCAM-musicians "stupid" enough to produce that kind of Samples for their Soloinstruments.

Don't shoot the messenger.

DG

I would personally first spend money to buy more articulations, and only then follow with improvements (positional changes, dimensions, up/down-bows, etc.), which I agree are also necessary. With libraries globally catering more and more to the current Hollywood scoring simpletonic epic/drone needs, I am not keeping my hopes too high, but more ensemble (if not solo) articulations that have been around for 100 years in symphonic music by composers such as Schoenberg, Bartok, Hindemith, Stravinsky and Varese, let alone Lutoslawski, Boulez, Stockhausen, Xenakis, Penderecki, Crumb, etc., if not Lachenmann, Grisey, Saariaho, Dusapin, etc., I believe are to be expected, if not actually being mandatory arsenal in the virtual compositional domain.

One cannot live on spiccato alone.

Or can he?...

You made the Point👍

There is no modern filmscoreing without the full sonic imagination explored by the 20th century music. To make their full pallette of orchestral colours available is defenitly a question of distinctive quality for orchestrasamplelibraries.

However VSL is of course already most impressive in this aspect, but flautandos, ponticellos are in my opinion currently far from the level they should be and col legno tratto would be likewise a reasonable addition to make VSL ready for modern music production.

Actually, to stick to the topic at hand, one articuation that would be nice is half and whole step trills in Dimension Strings (as opposed to performance trills) though that is probably already in the works for some time later. 

What are the chances that VSL will offer new/complementing String Libraries to their current Strings Libraries ? 

Actually, I have a feeling they are working on a lot of new exciting products, be that new Libraries, or the next generation of VI-Pro and VE-Pro , ..etc. Since it has been relatively quiet this year,  Dim-Brass II was the main new release this year. 

Probably the main priority is additional Dimension Strings, and the Choir.  Since VSL can create the greatest virtual choir in sampling history, they MUST do it!  (One must do what one can do...) They have the technology, they have the musicians, now they must create the choir that does not exist anywhere else in sampling - a word-singing, totally realistic choir to compliment the total realism of VSL's orchestral sounds.   No one else has been able to do it. 

The reason I mention the choir is that I now use VSL as my only orchestral samples, because their VE interface is so good to use for performance, as well as the fact that the recorded sounds are so good that no other libraries are truly comparable for the entire orchestra.  So I gravitated to VSL ONLY for normal orchestral sounds (except for some non-standard instruments) BUT!!!!  ---  the choir is a huge problem right now.  One must choose between the nightmare word-builder EWQL symphonic choir with no true legato and the hideous "Play" interface,  or various "ah-ee-ooh" type choirs such as Requiem, etc. which cannot do true word building.  (Except for the very nice Prague soloists and choir, though that is not a full-sized choir.)  This is a bad forced choice, and something that VSL can capitalize on right now, because there is no true word-singing full symphonic choir with legato out there.    

So that hijacks the thread away from strings (sorry!)  but I think both the additional D-Strings and choir are the most needed new samples from VSL right now. 

I've been whining for a boys choir for years now😢

Imagine having the world famous Vienna Boys' Choir at your finger tips😇  Even if it is just oooh's and aaahs.

Even though I do own EWQL choirs and voices, I would buy a word capable VSL offering, and if VSL did consider developing this, an idea would be to sample the choir in non-liturgival styles as well (I know, huge undertaking). The way EWQL - and other choirs I've heard - sound, it is difficult to simulate lighter, faster choral arrangements without sounding strange.

I'm not too fussed for more Dimension Strings at the moment, I would much rather have a separate Violin II section, Appassionata and otherwise. Why not a separate box though of really extended techniques (extreme sul pont., extreme sul tasto, legno tratto - use old decrepit bows, different kinds of harmonic glissandi, the speed of which would be managed in VI Pro, playing or striking below the bridge on every string, etc., and these are just the mild suggestions). I would buy this in a second, and so I would similar boxes for the other instrumental families.

I agree on the extended techniques, and in fact that is one major area throughout all the orchestra where VSL could expand, especially considering how these sounds - originated by formerly avant garde but now very old composers - are now used in film scoring.  The once shocking modernism has trickled down into pop decoration.