Hi Blogospherianman,

Thanks for sharing your point of view - I will share mine, too. :-)

I tried to explain the concept Vienna MIR and its successor MIR Pro as _one_ unified mixing stage in my previous post in this thread.

Like pointed out before, MIR Pro 24 is meant to be a cheap entrance into the world of object-oriented mixing as well as a cost-effective side license to MIR Pro.

Up to now there are no comparable solutions available on the market. Other professional software reverbs (with much simpler underlying concepts and engines) will cost you the same or even more. You would still pay at least five times the price for good surround-capable hardware reverbs - without the degree of integration and built-in intelligence you can find in MIR (I gave an overview in this message some months ago: -> http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/30396/194615.aspx#194615).

.... that said, rest assured that VSL has an open ear for complaints like yours.

Kind regards,

+ 2000

I will say it again ; why does MIR has to return to LOGIC or other DAW, if MIR is the FINAL STAGE, you just need to add bouncing to MIR.

This will avoind to put pressure on Logic or other DAW.

PLEASE add this feature so we gt rid of this bottle neck

The other solution is to change MIR licensing and to allow 3 serial no per user

Thanks a again Dietz and all the VSL programmers that wrote MIR.

Best

Cyril

@Another User said:

This will avoind to put pressure on Logic or other DAW.

I don't see any pressure put on my DAWs by MIR Pro. Could it be that you're experiencing a problem with Logic?

I hope my comments on this are positive, and not a "rant." Vienna products are fabulous, and I own almost all of them and use them every day.

Vienna - you got it right when you allowed three licenses on VE Pro. Most of us need to spread instruments around more than one computer either due to workflow logistics, or hardware limitations.

However, it doesn't seem right not to allow three licenses on MIR; or at least to charge only a nominal amount for them.

I understand your point that there is nothing comparable to MIR on the market. That's why I made a substantial investment to buy it. But the fact that there is nothing comparable doesn't explain Vienna's policy towards licensing. There's nothing comparable to VE Pro either, and it came with three licenses.

I also understand your point that MIR Pro was designed as a unified mixing stage, and perhaps it was not contemplated that users might want to have different MIR rooms on different instruments in the same mix; and perhaps it was not contemplated that users need to distribute instruments across multiple computers - but they do.

The Hammond organ was designed for living rooms. The Fender Rhodes electric piano was designed as a device to rehabilitate injured soldiers. But users figured out other uses and they became very popular musical instruments. You should hear what MIR does for certain jazz and pop tracks. Who knows what other uses people will discover.

I read the web site carefully before buying MIR. Both my computer tech and I were left with the impression that we would have three licenses to VE Pro that would include access to MIR.

Vienna - would you consider offering these additional licenses at a nominal cost - perhaps $100 per additional license? (Would need to include the roompaks by the way.) That seems more fair. What do you think?

Thanks in advance for listening,

Steve

Hi Steve,

I'm not trying to argue, but please allow for a few comments.

MIR Pro's product sub-site

[....] $100 per additional license? (Would need to include the roompaks by the way.) That seems more fair.

For any RoomPack you own there's a 70% (!) reduction for each additional license already - which means that you would have to pay 74 Euro for RoomPack 2, for example. Fair enough? 😉

-> http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1687/364/2062/1747.htm

Kind regards,

Hi Dietz,

Thank you for your comments. Your web site presentation seems clear now; I hope you can appreciate the frustration of those of us who were early adopters and were not warned in such a way. Early adopters are generally not hasty readers.

So if I want to use MIR on a 2nd computer, you're proposing I license a copy of MIR Pro 24 which is 395 Euro and to be able to use all three roompaks I would pay another 74 Euro each for roompaks 2 and 3. Isn't that getting close to 550 Euro?

That seems like a lot of money when all I want to do is use multiple computers together on the same project.

I request that Vienna give this further consideration; perhaps a promotion for existing MIR Pro users to buy a combination MIR PRo 24 license and roompak licenses for a lower fee for this purpose. Maybe the fee could be set even lower for those who own a certain amount of other Vienna products.

Thanks for listening,

Steve

I understand your request for lower prices (who wouldn't ...), and I will take care that VSL's marketing team takes note. Apart from that I would just repeat what I've already explained in my previous messages. :-)

Kind regards,

Steve, I'd like to add a couple comments to your discussion: comparing MIR Pro to VE Pro is sort of like comparing apples and oranges.  They are two different programs with two different purposes.  The different purposes of the two programs were probably clearer in the "old" days of MIR and VE Pro 4, where MIR did not require VE Pro, and in fact could not run under or with VE Pro. 

While designed as a general mixing host, VE Pro 4 was not designed as the elegant "one step" solution that was intended with MIR.  The fact that the two programs were entirely separate made the distinction easier.  MIR Pro and VE Pro 5 are still, in essence, two separate programs with different intents.  The fact that MIR Pro now requires VE Pro 5 in order to run blurs that distinction in terms of work flow/operations.  Nevertheless, the purpose of the two programs remains distinct.

From a business standpoint (though of course I have no access to VSL's financial data), given the time it took to create MIR and then, MIR Pro, I strongly suspect that it has one of the highest development costs of anything VSL has produced (creating "new concept" programs tends to require considerably more funds).  In contrast, the basic concepts of VE Pro 5, at least in terms of routing abilities, IIRC, goes back to the VE 3 days... i.e. several years ago.  Its core is based on older concepts, unlike MIR which is definitely "new".

While VEPro and MIR are separate products, are sold and marketed as a comprehensive solution.  That being said, Steve is not asking for 2 more free licenses for MIR, as is included with VEPro, but rather discounted additional licenses.  Many software programs do this and many do not. Usually, those that do allow for additional license discounts are those companies that are thinking of how their users work and their users needs as well as the cost of the product.

It seems to me wise to option to offer a discounted additional license version of MIR for secondary computers, for 25-30% of the cost of the first unit.  It would actually likely lead to more sales, with people buying more licenses for their other VEPro computers to give themselves more mixing options.  The way it is done now, it seems to me they are just making it easy for themselves to lose a sale, rather than see the opportunity to create additional sales.

jaime

Marketting is a science ! do you want to sell millions at a very low price or just a few at a BIG price

VSL has chose the second solution !

How many MIR PRO have been sold ? my bet is between 100 and 200 ! 

Cyril - that's an offcial warning: Please don't start your private crusade against VSL again. Don't spread unfounded assumptions and wrong numbers. Thanks.

@Dietz said:

Cyril - that's an offcial warning: Please don't start your private crusade against VSL again. Don't spread unfounded assumptions and wrong numbers. Thanks.

Hi Dietz

Calm down !  you are very sensitive, you need holidays [;)]

I am not starting a crusade against VSL !

You made your choice in your marketting strategies, it is YOUR choise. Nowdays Apple show that selling apps and music at a very low price are selling by millions !

Adobe has the same marketting policy as VSL !![:'(] 

For the figure, I have said it is my guess ! it's a guess, beeing angry with those figures looks like I may be right !

You can always contradict my figures and saying you are pround to annouce that you have sold 10 000 licences of MIR PRO

I will be very please to hear that you have sold 10 or a 100 thousands licences of MIR PRO

Best

Cyril

P.S. I will say again I LOVE MIR PRO, the only reproach it that it is a too expensive, you cannot have a license for 3 computers(it is very CPU greedy), that additionnals rooms are also too expensive

 Cyril, Marketing is very much more complicated than you make out. If I was selling a high end software product I would basically have 2 options:

1. Sell it to professionals and charge a professional price
2. Sell many more copies at a lower price.

On the surface it would seem that the 2nd option would be the preferred choice. However, this takes no account of two things:

1. The more copies you sell. the more support you have to be prepared to give
2. Once you move out of the professional market, the amount of support per customer that has to be given increases enormously, due to the fact that most of them haven't a clue what they're doing!

Now I'm sure that you can see there is almost a conflict of interest there. This sort of reasoning can be seen from many companies, such as Redmatica, who only produces software for Mac. Basic logic would tell you that the increased number of sales would easily outstrip the extra cost of doing the Windows port, but the amount of extra support obviously outweighs the potential profit to be made from these extra sales.

Regarding Apple's policy and music, I really don't think you want to go there. [:@]

DG

Let's not lose track of why we're all able to talk on this forum. We are Vienna's guests, and I for one am thankful for the innovative products Vienna has made available to us, and for the forum that connects all of us into a community.

The same great minds that designed these great products are in the best position to guide Vienna in its policies, and it is their prerogative to make those calls.

I appreciate the chance to express earlier in this post what my needs are as a user, and I hope that Vienna will give those needs some consideration, but there is no point in criticizing them or making them out to be the "bad guys." That's simply not right.

Let's stay positive and use what Vienna has provided us to make some great music.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. We are not fishing for compliments here, but friendly words are always welcome - as much as constructive criticism. :-)

@DG said:

 Cyril, Marketing is very much more complicated than you make out. 

The more copies you sell. the more support you have to be prepared to give

1. Once you move out of the professional market, the amount of support per customer that has to be given increases enormously, due to the fact that most of them haven't a clue what they're doing!

DG

Hi DG,

Nowdays companies give less and less support, as we, users,  gave support to each others on internet !

I had to help users uisng the "connect to " in Ichat (you connect on the other Mac and you show what to do)

I made a Logic/MIR Pro template that I have send to a few people !

Why did not VSL provide a Logic, Cubase, Protools ... template for MIR PRO ??? this will save a lot of traffic on the Forums !!

I have a question very OT for you :

My father is using Win XP and Internet explorer, I have send him a link to a zip file that contains some of my music. He says that when he click on the link nothing happends !

How can he retreive this .zip file ?

Many thanks

Best

Cyril 

@Cyril said:

 

I have a question very OT for you :

My father is using Win XP and Internet explorer, I have send him a link to a zip file that contains some of my music. He says that when he click on the link nothing happends !

How can he retreive this .zip file ?  

Right click, save target as...

DG

@Cyril said:

 

I have a question very OT for you :

My father is using Win XP and Internet explorer, I have send him a link to a zip file that contains some of my music. He says that when he click on the link nothing happends !

How can he retreive this .zip file ?  

Right click, save target as...

DG

Many thanks

@strytten said:

I have MIR and VEEns 5 as well as several room packs for MIR.  I need to use MIR on a second machine with VEEns and the room packs I have bought. [...] so that I can offload work from one machine and make use of the LAN capabilities of VEEns?

Why not restrict the use of your main DAW to Midi, MIR Pro and (other) mixing plug-ins, and have 2 slaves play the instruments.

In a thread about the use of multiple MIR Pro instances on one machine, for the purpose of having more than one (now more than two) mic positions, I mistakenly assumed that the 16 stereo channels of input and output were hardwired into VE Pro. That's not the case, it's configurable in the preferences. So it is in fact (theoretically) possible to send for example 100 instruments or more per slave VE over to the DAW and insert each of them using VE Audio Plug-ins into the DAW's VE Pro hosting MIR Pro. How that will work out in practice I don't know. Maybe you try it out.

Good luck!

Thank you Bas10, this is a great idea, and I'll give it a spin!