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  4. DP and VEPro delay compensation woes
  • M
    M

    Hi Martin,

    Thanks for getting involved in this. I understand your explanation of the problem. However, I can't help but feeling that this explanation is the equivalent of saying that the software is incompatible. I wouldn't be so critical if this were a minor inconvenience, however I think most musicians would say that having perfect time is not some added luxury feature, but a requirement. I also wouldn't be so critical if I was forewarned about this issue. 

    Thanks for your attention. I hope this gets resolved with haste.

    As a P.S. to DP users: this issue can be alleviated (albeit painstakingly) by adding a MIDI time shift plugin to each MIDI track, and shifting the timing earlier by the correct number of samples. For those of you with hundreds of tracks... have fun with that!
  • L
    L
    Thank you Martin. We have several plugs that I know of, that change their latency to DP depending upon what buttons are toggled within them. And they work as soon as you stop/start DP. And you can have 3 of the same plug in a session with differing settings. That to me, seems like what VEPro does. So I imagine it is quite possible to fix. BTW . can you have someone start monitoring and participating in this thread over at motunation. I think it would help us all out alot. http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=49430&sid=327c9a59dc218f35c893bec1752c8e4d
  • M
    M

    Are these other plugins instruments or effects?
  • M
    M

    We just did an experiment here with the Vienna Suite Convolution Reverb, which reports latency changes to DP in the exact same way as Vienna Ensemble Pro does. Here, latency compensation is updated and works as it should after a stop/play cycle, just as expected. My suspicion therefore remains, that DP doesn't respond to property change events for kAudioUnitProperty_Latency with AU instruments.
  • M
    M

    Many of us have submitted a tech note to MOTU regarding this. A fellow at MOTU named Lorne said that he will look into it.
  • M
    M

    So then if we leave the VEP server plugin at zero buffers, it should compensate correctly?

    I just did a test where I set the VEP plugin latency to zero buffers, but set the MOTU hardware buffer to 1024. I then recorded the audio output of some snare drum hits coming off my slave-- both dry and running through Altiverb. Everything lined up. Changing the buffer setting to anything other than zero is what causes the problem, as Martin is suggesting.
  • A
    A

    Hey Martin, thank you for taking us updated on your progress.

    FWIW also my tech link at MOTU has been answered by the same guy (Lorne) which will be probably investigating on their part. It would be a blessing if you two could get in touch to share technical upgrades.
  • M
    M

    At Zero buffers, there is no latency to compensate for!

    CPU usage will be a bit higher with 0 latency though, but since the CPU time is yielded back to the scheduler while waiting for data from the VEPro process, the CPU usage is only virtual - adding more plugins in DP should be possible without any noticable increase in total CPU. That being said, processing graph of host of course also comes into play. If plugins and effects are chained after the VEPro plugin, DP has to wait for the VEPro data before continuing with further processing, making this virtual load real :)
  • J
    J

    **Bump

    Just wanted to bump this topic to the top..  In fact, I think it's such a huge concern, that it should be a "Sticky" at the top of this forum.. (With the Event Input Topic)

    Didn't want it to get lost or forgotten..

    Thanks,

    J
  • L
    L
    Absolutely ! It is an absolute must for us here, and I am awaiting the day when we can get back to not having to do math and remember which trks need shifted and how much. TOo old for that! lol
  • K
    K

    There is nothing we can do about this unfortunately. DP simply refuses to update the latency of instrument AU's, even though we report the changes properly. MOTU has to implement latency compensation for instrument AU's in DP for this to work as it currently only seems to compensate for effect plugins. I've put a latency display (in samples and ms) on the VE Pro plugin's editor for the next update though, so compensating manually will at least be easier to accomplish until MOTU fixes this.
  • L
    L
    Hello Karel. Thank you for the info. Are you and your team 'directly' in contact with MOTU about this? I suspect you folks are going to have to work together to figure it out. (Our contact there indicates that VSL is the only company with this problem.) I am sure you can get it going if you work together. :)
  • J
    J
    Hi, When do you plan update VEP which this implementation? I was just about swiching to the VEP instead of Bidule mainly couse of that I had to add some many soundshifting plugins for midi tracks which was a horror and now it seems it doesn't work here as well. Would be grateful for info about approximate time of this update. Is day or weeks matter? Thanks.
  • K
    K

    If you want to speed up the process, contact MOTU with the request to implement latency compensation for instrument AU's as well. We can't change anything from our side unfortunately as the correct latency is already reported to DP.
  • J
    J
    I'm aware of that it's MOTU fault, and knowing them update won't come fast. And I didn't mean to speed up anything, so I'm sorry if you took that this way, just asked about mentioned update.
  • K
    K

    No problem. It's expected within a couple of days, depending on the success of testing.
  • L
    L
    Oops forgot to mention a few posts back... Karel and Martin et al. The "0" latency setting inside VEP idea, wont work when using event input as it adds another buffer. SO yuo dont end up in time then. We have to have the functionality of 'event input' and the fix for the delay comp for our major scores. Thanks again for helping us all get to the bottom of this.
  • P
    P
    Don't forget about Logic! :)
  • M
    M

    I was just informed that MOTU has fixed the issue with variable latency AU Instruments for DP8.
  • A
    A

    Hello Martin,

    thank you very much for keeping us updated on the progress and for this cool new.

    If MOTU keeps up with their NAMM announcement (DP8 in March!) it seems like we're gonna stop dealing with latency inconsistency in a matter of days.

    Time for upgrading to VEP5!!! ;-)

    Cheers

    Arceo

    P.S.

    Since you got in contact with MOTU, did you two cope with the Event Plugin/No Bounce to Disc issue? Are you (or are you aware if MOTU team is) working on a solution even for this hick up? Thanks again.