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  4. Why do VIOLINS sound like ACCORDIONS ?

  • Why do VIOLINS sound like ACCORDIONS ?

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    Hello everybody Having tried different Orchestral banks I decided to go with Appassionata Strings I, quite convincing by the demos. The only legato I have is 01 VI-20 Perf Legato. Well, to make it short, why do VIOLINS sound like ACCORDIONS, specially in the lower range of the stave ? Do they need a bit of EQ ? Are my ears starting to hear more frequencies than others ? Or less frequencies ? Well, I don't know what to do, the only way of getting rid of this "accordion sound" is flooding the violins with a Reverb... Let's say I was expecting a more realistic sound -without any effect- with this "20 players" sample. Thank you if you can give me a clue on what to do. Once again WHY can't I write a Post with "Return" which goes to the next line of text or leaves a blank line ? All my text is compacted on a single line whatever I do. So much trouble, so little time :-) Thank you
  • A
    A

     To get your posts spaced out right,  goto your profile - communication and set content editor to "Enhanced".


    As for your accordion sounding strings, you could trying increasing the release time  a little on the envelope to make the strings flow better.  I generally find when I have something that does not sound real, it is usually my choice of phrasing that has caused it.
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    last edited
    last edited

    @Elepa said:

    Well, to make it short, why do VIOLINS sound like ACCORDIONS, specially in the lower range of the stave ?  

    Almost certainly because you're playing block chords with a single patch.
  • E
    E

    Thank you for the answers.

    In fact I am trying to reproduce an Adagio theme... Just single notes (eighth notes/quavers T=60), legato, very slow... I would say the sound is right above C3. I have not a lot the choice of a phrasing but I'll give a try to the Release function.
    As "single patch"... well I have not a lot of choice with "Appassionata strings I standard" only one legato (non fast-non rep). But as I am rather new to VI, I hope I will find tricks to get the sounds right... or I will break my piggybank.. again ![:)]

    Thank you also for the "enhancement" place to go.

    Chris
  • D
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     Make sure that you are using velocity xFade.

    DG
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hi Chris

    - If you have an EQ serch for the frequency which makes the sound of an accordeon and suppress it with some -dBs. The sound of the appassionatas can be formed in many ways.

    - Play the Appassonats together with a solo violin or the chambers (unisono).

    - If you own the Vienna Suite Effects try the VSLpresets for the Appassionatas within the EQ

    Which reverb do you use? I can't find a venue for the apssionatas with Altiverb for example. All of those venues make the sound bad in a way.

    Here is an example how the appassionatas can sound (together with the solo strings of VSL - and the use of X-velocity)



    (Listen from 1:40 and more)

    Do they sound just as an accordeon?

    Best

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • G
    G

    If you ask a violinist to play a plain a note without any sort of effects, no vibrato, just straight, and you are blind folded, it is likely you won't even be able to recognize the sound comes from a violin. But the moment he adds some expression and combine that with a second note with some dynamics, then it sounds like a violin.  Real violin or samples, same principal. 
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    Thank you all for these useful comments.
    I have spent some time playing with VelXfade, Rel... and still not convincing by "my" overall violins sound. As I am convinced that VSL samples are (amongst) the greatests, let's put it on the way I am handling them...

    The piece I am trying to reproduce is G. Delerue, Le mépris (aka Contempt), Theme de Camille (also on the soundtrack Casino, M.Scorsese).
    It is very close to S. Barber's Adagio, covered with Orchestral Strings VSL by Michael Hula/Dietz Tinhof (Demo Zone).
    As M. Hula does not give the details of which samples he used, I just have one question : are the Orchestral Strings far more adapted for this kind of piece than Appassionata Strings I Standard ?

    And... thanks this very helpful VSL Community !
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    Is there anywhere you could upload your WIP, because it might make a few things clearer about what you're trying to achieve and where it isn't working.

    DG
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    Thanks a lot (one again) DG ! That's very nice of you.

    One of my numerous tests on a FTP server : http://dl.free.fr/mon.pl?i=15506404&h=I5UXckRg

    More a crappy attempt than a WIP !

    Have a nice WE[:)]
  • D
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     Hmmm. I tried to d/l the file, but got this error message:

    Etat de l'émission de INCONNU
    Session inexistante.
  • E
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    Probably my mistake ! Sorry !

    I think the right address is : dl.free.fr/iD1dPXPf7
  • D
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     OK, I can get the page now, but my French isn't good enough to see how to download your file. Sorry. [:$]

    DG
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    ? When I enter dl.free.fr/iD1dPXPf7 as an Internet address, the download box opens automatically, giving the choice of reading the file or downloading it.
  • D
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     It works now. However, I have to do a right click on a link that I don't know what it means. [;)]

    It's also the slowest d/l I've ever seen (including dial-up) so it may take a while...................

    DG
  • D
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     OK, first two thoughts:

    1. There are gaps between some of the notes, which means you aren't playing legato.
    2. I hear no expression in the sound, so even if you have velocity xFade enabled, you aren't using a continuous controller to make your line expressive.

    DG
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    I got it ! It's because you use IE9, not Firefox...
    I thought the only usefulness of IE was to get Firefox (old joke)
    Anyway, "the slowest dl"... well.. I live in a poor country, you know..
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    You're right, it is one of the tests I choose a bit too quickly to upload : not my best legato playing.
    I have more tests, more legatos, some with Expression (CC11), some with VelXfade or others.True that I am a bit confused between CC11 and VelXfade.I have to sort out all this stuff.
    I will come back asap with different files, and you may tell me more.
    After all, I may be not compatible with VI (I think I gonna keep this one as a quote [:)])
  • D
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    You can do without Expression. You can't do without velocity xFade. I would suggest for these test you upload mp3 rather than wav and with minimum reverb, to make it easier to hear what's going on. It also might be worth uploading a MIDI file of your performance, so that we can see what's going on.

    DG
  • E
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    Dear DG

    A series of files. It's a .rar (2Mo) : dl.free.fr/bxo9OHQh7

    Thanks