One thing that continues to amaze me in these types of threads is a seemingly unspoken but underlying assumption that products with "Hollywood" or "Cine" = good, while products that emulate a traditional orchestra = bad.  As stated before, having played classical double-bass, VSL comes as close to what I actually do (with the bow in particular).  There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.

VSL reminds me very much of what participating in an orchestra actually sounded like.  There simply is far more to the orchestral world than that trademark "Hollywood" sound.  Side note: what will happen when popular tastes change, and the lush Hollywood sound is no longer "in"?

@noldar12 said:

One thing that continues to amaze me in these types of threads is a seemingly unspoken but underlying assumption that products with "Hollywood" or "Cine" = good, while products that emulate a traditional orchestra = bad.  As stated before, having played classical double-bass, VSL comes as close to what I actually do (with the bow in particular).  There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.

Agree.

Some libs may have thicker sounds out of the box and on a on a very limited comparison it can give an impression of superiority, but I'd say the same way one will say: I prefer this girl because she has bigger boobs: Hollywood boobs!

Did someone say "girl"...."Hollywood".... Guy, you work too hard!....here's the way to do it:

I guess working in Hollywood for too long leads to irreversible changes in one's mind, setting it on squeezing money out of everything that moves.

@synergy543 said:

Did someone say "girl"...."Hollywood".... Guy, you work too hard!....here's the way to do it:

brought to you by none other than Hans himself.

a good way to work ! Thank you ! Life is easier now ........... ! [H][;)]

@Another User said:

 There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.  

Actually HS does have a vivaldi demo up.  I just don't agree that VSL sounds more like a real orchestra than the other libraries available, at least not the strings I've heard.  But that's always going to be a matter of opinion.

Ok, you believe cine brass sounds better, it's your view. So what's your point besides that?.

to be honest, the best string library I've ever heard is the fairly unknown Spiritoso Live Cellos by Zero G:

http://www.timespace.com/product/SPIR-326/Zero-G%20Spiritoso:%20Live%20Cello%20Phrases.html

If you hear the demos you'll see what I mean.  Just because I produced this library myself and therefore will directly earn money from any of you that buy it, I am in no way biased.

;)

I should add: it only sounds truly great when blended with VSL strings.

@synergy543 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPW6fKiilIc&feature=related

Apparently brought to you by none other than Hans himself.

- "I've been a composer all my life" [:P][W][li][+o(][+o(][+o(]

This year's nominees for best o r i g i n a l (sic!!) score are: UJAM (with "melody" by Hans), UJAM (with "melody" by Trevor), UJAM (on its own),  and Ennio Morricone.

And the Oscar goes to...... UJAM!! 

P.S.: It would be great to see a thread where people would discuss actual adequate 'string-writing' and its subtleties, with as much attention to detail as they do when they discuss timbre/realism etc. Who cares whether you have the real Vienna Philharmonic in front of you if you have only composed pads and semiquaver-drones... 

(Certainly not the MORON directors/producers and their pathetic music supervisors who can't tell the difference between genuine invention and a computer algorithm, and keep paying the bluffers of this world untold millions for their mouse-riding skills)

Do you think it's very respectful advertising Spiritoso on the VSL forum? Personally I would have no use for such library, using bits of phrases. It wouldn't take too long before you are repeating the same phrases over and over, even though they sound good.

@Guy Bacos said:

Ok, you believe cine brass sounds better, it's your view. So what's your point besides that?.

Besides that, my point is that I think people are assuming that other libraries are only good for one style based on product names.

@Guy Bacos said:

Ok, you believe cine brass sounds better, it's your view. So what's your point besides that?.

Besides that, my point is that I think people are assuming that other libraries are only good for one style based on product names.

Fine, hope you will enjoy it.

I hope so too, hopefully it will be out in a month or so.

@Guy Bacos said:

Do you think it's very respectful advertising Spiritoso on the VSL forum? Personally I would have no use for such library, using bits of phrases. It wouldn't take too long before you are repeating the same phrases over and over, even though they sound good.

how happy can VSL be with this discussion? Not much I think.

Then again, it's all healthy debate. I suspect there's a few psychological factors at work here in people's replies. For example, people choose VSL over others firstly because they prefer the sound, so they are probably going to defend it vigourously on this forum, and why not. Also however, whatever people buy costs so much money that they will desperately want to believe that it's the best, so that they won't feel stupid, and I suspect this is also a factor at play. And another layer here is that clearly there's quite a few great products all which have a different sound, each valid in different ways for different uses or a different end impact.

So, everyone's right in their own way.

Although I would say, the more emotional someone's response is, the more likely it is that they are expressing opinions and feelings and not being entirely rational.

@dagmarpiano said:

Then again, it's all healthy debate. I suspect there's a few psychological factors at work here in people's replies.....

 .....whatever people buy costs so much money that they will desperately want to believe that it's the best, so that they won't feel stupid, and I suspect this is also a factor at play. 

I don't think you should underestimate people's choices.

@dagmarpiano said:

Then again, it's all healthy debate. I suspect there's a few psychological factors at work here in people's replies.....

 .....whatever people buy costs so much money that they will desperately want to believe that it's the best, so that they won't feel stupid, and I suspect this is also a factor at play. 

I don't think you should underestimate people's choices.

I agree, and in my own case as I'm an expert when it comes to strings, I don't think my opinion can just be written off as the Emperor's Old Clothes....!

DG

@dagmarpiano said:

Then again, it's all healthy debate. I suspect there's a few psychological factors at work here in people's replies.....

 .....whatever people buy costs so much money that they will desperately want to believe that it's the best, so that they won't feel stupid, and I suspect this is also a factor at play. 

I don't think you should underestimate people's choices.

I agree, and in my own case as I'm an expert when it comes to strings, I don't think my opinion can just be written off as the Emperor's Old Clothes....!

DG

I only said it might be a factor. Maybe a tiny factor, amongst a tiny minority of insecure composers. Not you of course DG and Guy 😊 Or me.

Well instead of arguing here are some excerpts that show why I like the Appassionata strings so much - it is great to be able to work with these sounds!  This has them in a big orchestral setting and also features the Dimension Brass:

@William said:

Well instead of arguing here are some excerpts that show why I like the Appassionata strings so much - it is great to be able to work with these sounds!  This has them in a big orchestral setting and also features the Dimension Brass:

It sounds great, but the strings are the weakest part of this arrangement in terms of pure realism.  The brass, harp, percussion and woods sound pretty real to me.  The strings are a lot better than, say, 80s Korg M1 strings for example, but they're still quite a way from sounding convincingly real.  My feeling is that they sound about 70% real - pretty good but with giveaways every time there's anything fast or with an attack, or even the performance legato which sounds a bit not right. I think Hollywood Strings, in the right hands, can get a bit more realistic - like 72%. Still nothing like adding real players (the way I always work is to add real players from the Roal Liverpool Philharmonic to samples to try get the best of both, and it really makes a difference).

Another thing I'd say is that for professional use, this is better than using a real but amateur orchestra - it's very in tune etc.. 

There's also more to a library than realism anyway. There's the kind of sound you want. HS gives you this distant, lush sound which can be big, sweeping and epic, but it's not much use if you want a kind of raw, driving power.  You might even say that HS has a slightly tacky, overly sweet quality, if you wanted to be unkind. But that's the Hollywood sound.

On this arrangement, VSL does sound more pure and honest than HS would be, but slightly less realistic.

That's MY BIG FAT OPINION. For what it's worth.

Hope you enjoyed the analysis.

😊