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  • NEW Orchestral Templates: Ve PRO and Logic Pro 9

    Hello everybody,

    I´m happy to announce this tutorial from Tobias Escher, which is now available in the "Needful Things" section of your User Area.

    I hope you will find some helpful suggestions for your work, and I´d like to say a big "Thank you" to Tobias, who is currently already working on an update [:)], and will be happy to hear your input!

    All the best,


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Thanks for putting my tutorial up on the website, Paul! As Paul said, I'm currently working on an update. If you have any comments to the tutorial or if theres anything I should address in an update, please send me a message on my website. I hope you find the tutorial useful. Thanks again! Tobias

  • I have some philosophical differences with Tobias, but this is well done and similar to my tutorial in my book, but more expansive.

  • Sorry to be off-topic, but I think you are confusing me with someone else. I didn't even know that you wrote something similar in your book and I have never talked to you if I recall correctly. So I don't know of any "philosophical differences". If you are thinking of the so-called "songmaker" of the same name - that's NOT me! Definitely NOT! Which "philosophical differnences" would that be? Maybe I can clear it up.

  • Don't misunderstand, I am not accusing you of anything plagiaristic. Philosophical differences, I would not transform the CCs, I would use CC11 on the instruments and use CC7 on the auxes, best of both worlds IMHO. If the Kontakt instrument does not use CC11 the way most do, I would change it in the Kontak instrument. And I would stress even more strongly that the VE Pro instances should be decoupled.. There are a few more, but all subjective and minor. As I said, you did a nice job.

  • Oh, sorry, that was indeed my fault! There are two other people out there who have the same name, one is of questionable political views (illegal views over here) and people constantly confuse me with him. A bit of a sore spot :(

    I chose to transform the CCs because some instruments react to CC11 and others don't. Besides CC11 is not always mapped to volume. So to leave the pre-programmed CCs untouched and to be absolutely sure that Kontakt will react to fader changes, I used the transformer. I have also had some instances where my hardware controller would freak out when using CC11. Basically the whole transformer thing is a huge workaround. Most people I helped setting up their templates chose to do it this way, too, but it is not a must. I'll make that more clear in the next update.

    I have found that I prefer to run my instances coupled, but I know that most people prefer them uncoupled, so I just chose to not give any advice at all on this matter and let people decide for themselves. If you find the time, I'd be glad if you would tell me the other things you'd change.

  • I have a question about your template. Why do you use midi multi intruments instead of actual multi instruments. Doing it your way does'nt allow you to bounce in place which is a huge advantage for stems and converting to audio. Also enables the instrument and its plugins to appear on the arrange page . Am I missing something , seems like a no brainer. I have setup a huge template that way and it works fine. I am sure there is a valid reason apart from maybe cpu saving .

  • Hi!

    If you use any multi instruments the faders in Logic control the whole VI instead of only the one channel, so all your instruments on all channels will change volume with CC7. This is why I insert a transformer in the environment which makes the sliders effectively send not CC7 but another CC for volume. As you cannot (easily) add a transformer to the "regular" multi instruments, I chose to use external midi tracks, which also allows me to only activate the MIDI channels I really need. Behind the scenes, the Logic multi instrument activates all channels. But if I only want 6 channels, with external MIDI I can only activate those 6 and leave the others switched off. Minimises interference.

    Furthermore, with the regular multi instruments, you have the first channel as well as the first output on the instrument channel, but for all further midi channels you need extra tracks and auxes. It works, but the first channel looks different than the others. I want it to be as easy as possible which is why I don't use MIDI channel 1 (which is on the track the VI is instantiated on), but start with 2 and use external midi tracks. Those allow me to cable everything to my liking in the environment and so far I could not find any disadvantages. Because channel 1 is not even activated, there is no need to have the VI slot visible, which is why I hide it. It is out of the way and I only see my instrument tracks. Why would you want the actual plugins to appear on the arrange page? They are VE Pro plugins, which you never need to touch after they are set up. I felt these tracks are visual clutter, so I am glad to get rid of them.

    There is one last reason: Those multi instruments you use only came with Logic 8. My method works with earlier versions, too. This wasn't a big decision to use it as I use Logic 9, but I had a lot of people following the tutorial who still use Logic 7.

    As for bounce in place: Yes, you cannot do this with external midi tracks, but I have never missed it, actually. I didn't even think of this. But you are right, I will put it in the next update for the tutorial.

    Hope that helps :)

    EDIT: I forgot one thing: If you use the transformer to route the fader to a different CC, you can easily make the fader control a parameter just by changing the CC. So if you want to use the fader for, say, breath control, remap it to CC2 in the transformer. This only works with external midi tracks, if I am not mistaken.

  • Hi,

    Thanks for the in depth response. I am not able to access logic for a few days what with Easter and Royal weddings but will have a play around when I get back and see if i can get into your logic and respond. I Will miss the bounce in place though and never have issues with cc7 as I use cc11.

  • Ok, looking forward to your feedback. Feel free to drop me a line on my website in case I miss your post here.

    In fact, I use CC11, too, so the CC7 thing really isn't that big of an issue, but still: I try to minimize problems. And it is _really_ bad if you accidentally mess up all your levels^

  • Novatian --

    First, thanks for posting you tutorial.  I do plan to try it out.

    But I DO have some problems, which I also related in another post about automation of VI Instances (and other AUs) within Logic 9.1.3, and I would certainly appreciate your response.  It could be I need to change a Setting or Preference somewhere.  Let me explain.

    As your tutorial demonstrates, at present, with Logic 9.1.3, one CAN Track automate the various CC based settings within a VI Pro instance, if one sets up the VE Pro template where VE Pro becomes a "multi-instrument" External Midi instrument. 

    At present, I set up VE Pro as a multi-timbral instrument within Logic.  This allows me to automate the VE Pro Faders, and I use separate channels for each VI Pro instance.  I control the VI Pro instances with CC commands entered into each Region, each Track within which a Region resides having been assigned a separate channel.  I have changed keyswitches to Midi Control Commands within the VI Pro instance.  The Control Map Tab within VI Pro Advanced is my guide for Controller assignments, and I use other controller assignments to control VI Pro parameters not previusly assigned in the Control Map.  It is possible to graphically control CC values (example:  CC2 "Breath" - 65, which I have assigned to Velocity-Xfade), as I am sure you know, through Logic's so-called Hyper-Draw and Hyper Editor  I should add that I do not find these graphical interfaces particularly easy to use.  Region-based CC assignments have advantages and disadvantages that I have discovered.  For a disadvantage, to be sure I have selected the correct Articulation, Velocity-Xover, and so on for each Region, I have taken to always pasting these values in at the beginning of each Region.  If I simply leave a Region blank at the beginning as far as Control assignments are concerned, I take the risk that the Control value from the previous Region will continue.  So for each Region, I give it a fresh start, CC-wise.  This is a PITA.

    However, for composition, Region-based CCs allow me to quickly duplicate a Region with all the parameters I want already set up.  I am SURE this is what I want, because each Region gets a fresh-CC start at the beginning of the Region.  Another, major advantage, is the the Midi Event List editor shows me precisely where in the time-stream my CC's are placed and shows those CCs in relation to the notes I am trying to affect.  Finally, each time I make a CC change, it is immediately reflected in the Midi Event List window, so I can correct errors, or confirm a change in its relation to notes.

    Now we turn to the approach you so carefully set out in your tutorial. I seem to have a basic problem (or misunderstanding) of making precise changes to CC values if I adopt your approach.  To be more specific:  in order to use the Midi Event List editor for precise edits, one must call up a special, free-floating Midi Event List editor with the key command Cmd-Cntrl-E.  Here are the problems with that window:  (1) it is not reliable.  It does not always reliably show Fader events for a selected Track.  Also, you must close and re-open that window to see the changes made.  There is some kind of bug present, or perhaps I need to correct a Setting for the Project or my Logic Preferences somehow.  (2) that special Midi Event List window showing Fader commands, does NOT place them within the other Midi events, such as Notes -- you see only Fader events.  By contrast, if you are using Region-based CCs to control VI Pro instances (as I now do), and you have the regular Midi Event List window open, the CC change is IMMEDIATELY reflected (without the necessity of reopening the window), and the new event is placed within OTHER events in the Region, such as Notes and other CC changes.

    I sense you have considerably more experience than I do, and I may be missing the forrest for the trees, or perhaps the bush for a twig, as it were, given the nettlesome detail of Logic.  Also, while I have Kontakt 4.2.2 instanced in VE Pro, I have not tried to control parameters within it.

    So to put my query simply:  how do you precisely control CC values using your approach?  Is there a workaround for the fact that the special Fader Midi Event List window shows only Fader events and doesn't immediately update to show changes?  Does the approach I am using have some fatal flaw, such as control of CC7 for Volume, that I cannot reasonably overcome?


  • Hi,

    I'm back and have studied your template and think I will forgo the bounce in place and use external midi like you have. It does raise the question of how to easily make individual stems. I suppose soloing the midi track and bouncing live is the only way other than routing all the auxes to individual buses and the inputing them to audio tracks but in a buig temp[late that can get complicated.

    I also downloaded this template which I really like because of being able to control the volume of the auxes without having to have them on the arrange page . It also seems very organized having the instruments on seperate layers in the environment.

    He also has a transformer that stops cc7 to 10 going to the plug in and so just automates the aux level in logic which is neat. So once you have set up your general balance and levels in VSL . They need never be touched and can be the same accross all cues . All the fine tuning is done in logic and uncoupled as well which is a quicker way to work . 

  • Hi Steve!

    Sorry for taking so long to reply. Unfortunately, I cannot really help you. I program all CC values by recording fader movements to a copy of the corresponding MIDI track. So every single MIDI track as has a second one that is used for modulation and all other CCs. I record these with an Evolution UC333e, where I have several presets for fader assignments for different instruments. I have never used the Event List. Maybe you could try to use a second MIDI track for all CCs.

  • Thanks for your comments.  I will try adding a second, duplicate track for fader movements, keeping MIDI data separate on the track just above it, so that each instrument will have two tracks.  Since I use one track per instrument (usually), I still must include CC commands within Regions to change instrument articulations (staccato to sustain, for example).  I also must use Regions to turn on, for example, Velocity cross-fade, although I suppose a fader approach for the whole track might work better, and I will give it a try.  Using a second track would give you a better visual or graphic idea of the relation of CC changes to the Region, and one can pretty quickly see whether a fader is at the wrong value (something not so easy to do search through Region MIDI data in the Event window).

    To make precise changes in fader movements, I can use the Cmd-Control-E window (Fader Window) to precisely position a change in, say Expression, at a particular point in the song, and can change its value as well.

    I do find it disconcerting that Channel 1 is always indicated in the Fader Window, where I have assigned channels to each separate instrument.  I think what is happening is that my "channels" for instruments using your approach are actually SUB-channels of the first instance (track) where we set up VE Pro as an external MIDI instrument.

    I don't have enough experience to know which works better, your approach or the multi-timbral approach where VE Pro is initially set up as a multi-trimbral instrument. I will rely on your judgement and keep plugging along for a while to see how it goes. 

    Again, thanks for your comments and suggestions.


  • Novatlan, could you guide me through creating the transformer and connecting it inside the environment? I changed my CC7's for CC27's in the instruments inside VE Pro, following your advice read in the tutorial. But I don't know how to create the transformer and where to place it in the environment chain.. Would you help me out on that? Thank you very much!

  • Hi!

    The whole process is described in the tutorial with pictures, actually :)

    If you're stuck, send me an email via my website ( :)