@julian said:

When you are recording real instruments in an orchestral setting it would be unlikely you'd go further away than 1m with the "spot" mic for your solo instrument. Apart from around this position sounding just fine (along with mixed in pick-up of the room and other orchestra mics) any further and the mic would tend to pick up additional instruments in preference to your solo.

Julian

I'd agree that 1m may be fine for a spot mic, but in that situation it is also blended with a more distant mic.  In general, orchestral recordings sound most natural using mostly the main mics that capture the entire ensemble, and a small amount of spot mics (when they are needed).

I'm talking about recording with only one mic and having it at 1m, which seems to be the case with some VSL solo instruments (correct me if I misunderstood).

If you really wanted to recreate that means of recording a full orchestra, it seems like the best way to do it would be to use multiple mics (more distant mics and closer "spot mics") and let the user mix between the two.  The difference in sound between close and distant micing  is more than just verb and I doubt it can really be simulated well.

So, does MIR actually help improve the actual timbre of the currently available VSL strings libraries ?  (i.e. offer rich, natural, and warm strings timbre) ?  I personally don't think so. 

Yes, MIR can improve the perceived spacial elements around the samples, but since the samples themselves do NOT have that rich, warm timbre I'm expecting to hear, I very much doubt any type of spacial treatment will solve this problem. Sadly, this is very much the case with all of the VSL strings audio demos I hear. They lack that natural, warm, and pleasing strings timbre that my ears have a big craving for. 

If VSL thinks that MIR is the ultimate solution to improve the current VSL strings, I would love to hear a few demos that prove that this is actually possible. So far I'm NOT convinced.

@Roger Noren said:

And in that case classical recordings would be made that way - why bother setting up the extra microphones then?

I don't understand this question, sorry.

You didn't read my previous post properly (or it's a language thing - English isn't my mother tongue, as you may have guessed  😊 ...)

What the main microphone in an orchestral recording picks up is 90 or more percent room reflections. These reflections are coming from sources which are "dry" by definition (as an instrument isn't a room in our sense of the word - well, maybe with the exception of an organ).

This room signal is what MIR is all about. Mix in the dry signal to the "proper" amount  - which is always more a question of aesthetics than pure science, to my experience - and you are right there. The feeling for "distance" is built-in.

Of course we are in the virtual world, so we have to deal with side-effects that wouldn't occur in reality, so all we can do is to betray the human ear as skillfully as pissible. 😊 MIR is still brandnew, so we yet have to gain mastership.

Kind regards,

@muziksculp said:

So, does MIR actually help improve the actual timbre of the currently available VSL strings libraries ?  (i.e. offer rich, natural, and warm strings timbre) ?  I personally don't think so. 

If VSL thinks that MIR is the ultimate solution to improve the current VSL strings, I would love to hear a few demos that prove that this is actually possible. So far I'm NOT convinced.

 A friend of mine who's a professional classical player came to my home a week ago and told me that VSL+MIR is the most convincing orchestra mock-up tool till now.

In a world where somebody says that old LP are better than 24bit/98K digital recording, that is a big success for the Vienna Team.

If you don't like it, you may go for the real thing and nobody will argue with you. I think that every man prefer a beatiful girl instead of a video of her[8-|], even if is a 3D movie.

@Sergino Futurino said:

 A friend of mine who's a professional classical player came to my home a week ago and told me that VSL+MIR is the most convincing orchestra mock-up tool till now.

In a world where somebody says that old LP are better than 24bit/98K digital recording, that is a big success for the Vienna Team.

Thanks for the feedback. 

Hearing is believing !   That's the only way to prove that VSL + MIR is the ultimate sounding virtual orchestra solution on the market.  

If (VSL + MIR) can offer the type of string sounds I'm eager to hear, I would buy it instantly. The real issue is that non of the audio demos have been able to deliver that rich, and warm, strings timbre I'm seeking. I'm also aware that there is no way we are going to be able to compete with real string players when using samples, but the closer we get to that animated, lively, warm,  singing, and rich timbre sound, the more convinced I will be that VSL + MIR can do the job.  

IMHO,  VSL woodwinds, and brass, timbres, are much better sounding than VSL's strings timbre, so I'm hoping that VSL might have some future plans, to offer a line of new ' improved ' Strings libraries (2nd generation VSL strings ) one of these days. So far there is no sign of this happening, but who knows, they might decide to do so one of these days.  On the other hand, if I do finally hear that jaw dropping VSL strings audio demo, I will put this argument to rest. 

Cheers.

I agree with that.  If VSL/MIR are really doing the most convincing mockups possible right now, it's not coming across in the demos I have heard.

And from what I've heard I'd also agree that the brass and wind instruments seem more convincing than the strings.

@Sergino Futurino said:

I think that every man prefer a beatiful girl instead of a video of her , even if is a 3D movie.

For a moment there I thought I read "I think that every man prefers a beautiful girl instead of the wife he got"...

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life

Never make a pretty woman your wife!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2MM1BosdmYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2MM1BosdmY

@Sami said:

I've used VSL Strings for almost 6 years now, up until the point I got LA Scoring Strings. Over the last few projects I found myself replacing my VSL strings completely, with the exception of sordinos and there legato articulation. With that said, VSL Strings did there job exceptionally over the years, but until they offer proper divisi options I'll be with LASS. Am alone on this one? Any LASS users on here?

I have actually considered buying them.  Do you find them easy to work with?  How do you find the sound quality of them compared to your current libraries?

@Sami said:

I've used VSL Strings for almost 6 years now

Hi Sami,

which VSL string products are referring to? I couldn't find any strings registered on your account.

best

Herb

I suspect why Herb posted the question is that VSL instruments are licensed to individuals for use in their own compositions/productions.

So I guess it would be outside the scope of the licence for an individual to purchase a VSL licence then for other composer/engineers to use it even within the same production facility!

Which leads on to.... if you're using the VSL strings not licenced to you (maybe it's different if you're a programmer for a composer with a licence) then someone's not playing ball.

Julian

"Indeed" - "sami"

What the hell is that supposed to mean?  That you stole the VSL library?  You must have, since by your posts you indicate you are a real jerk with no respect for your superiors. 

BTW, you do not know what the hell you are talking about.  The LASS may have better "auto-divisi" than VSL, but they don't compare to VSL in basic sound and musical quality at all.  So you can do divided but mediocre strings with that library.  go for it!

There was a guy on here previously who said concerning VSL solo strings -  "give us poorer sound quality but looped."  Which goes to show - along with your post  - that what Nietzsche predicted about the increasing democratization of society resulting in idiots being given equal voice to rulers and geniuses has already taken place - on the internet.  I congratulate you for your achievement in proving him right.

@William said:

 You will not dignify the post by Herb - THE CREATOR OF VSL? 

You are the LOL. 

You have not moved on to something better - you have proved yourself to know nothing about sampling.  And also - you are almost certainly a shill for LASS.  What is it?  Are you trying to get a gig with them?  Probably.   Because I doubt you are the head of a major company, though you have the arrogance to insult one.  But anyone who prefers the LASS library to the VSL strings consisting in full array of Solo, Chamber, Orchestral and Appassionata is either 1) Brain-dead or 2) Shill.

And Herb, I'm probably one of your most original fans so I have all the respect for you. But when one's integrity is questioned on an open forum, I doubt there can be much of positivity in the response.

William, you forget your meds or just having a bad day? I happen to prefer LASS to VSL for a number of things. Quite a few VSL users I know feel the same. Doesn't make VSL bad, just preferred in some situations. I still use VSL all the time, but I also use LASS. 

I guess that makes us all shills, because I don't think any of us are brain dead. Although sometimes I wonder if you are when you go off like that. 

 Sami, don't beat me, but I can't help finding mistakes and typos:

This the first sentence I read in your web site:

We are not afraid to harness this great stuido for unprecedented styles and quality of music.