Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Upgrade to Logic 9? (from 8) Is it worth it? 64-bit question.

    I generally use VSL in standalone and send midi via IAC from Finale 2010. (I use 2-3 standalone instances of VE2 for this)

    Now I have to do a mockup of a larger symphonic work and I will export the midi data from Finale to Logic 8. The template for this specific work is roughly 5-6 GB and it struck me that it might be impractical to edit this piece in Logic 8 because of this. (Since Logic 8 is 32-bit = 2.8 GB limit)

    I read that Logic 9 has become 64-bit now. Would you recommend an upgrade because of this or is it something else I should consider?


  • Hello, Albert.

    I've been using Logic 9.1 (sometimes) with VSL Special Edition Extended and Plus Strings articulations, and also, several download instruments.  I also use Finale 2010 at times.

    In order to take advantage of the 64 bit Logic, I believe you need to use VE Pro in 64 bit mode.  You can use the 32 bit VE Pro, VE2, VE3 and VI, but Logic will need to load them with a 'wrapper' that allows 32 bit to work in the 64 bit Logic 9.1.  Logic 9.1 will also load in 32 bit mode.

    I have enjoyed seeing Logic 9.1 64 bit with VE Pro 64 be able to access much more of the memory I have in my Mac Pro (12 gig).  I can load up quite a large set of instruments in VE Pro 64 using Logic 9.1 64.

    However, if you use other instruments in your work, most of them will have to load in the 32 bit 'wrapper.'  Also, I believe that when you load 32 bit instruments into Logic 9.1 64, we are subject to the oringal 32 bit limitations for that load.

    Many things are not ready for 64 bit right now, but VE Pro is.  Logic is the first one there on the Mac, so it may be some time before others follow along.  I hope not...I keep getting older!

    Mac Pro 2.66-12 gig memory, OS X 10.6.2, Logic 9.1, Sibelius 6, Finale 2010.

    Dennis


  • Hi Dennis,

    from your answer I understand that I need VE Pro as well if I want to go beyond the 2.8 GB RAM limit in Logic 9? I haven't really seen the need for VE Pro in my current setup so this is something I will have to invest in as well. It's not really a budget issue, more than I don't wont to spend too much time upgrading and learning new software if I don't have to.

    The thing is that I use Finale 99% of my working time. I use Logic maybe 3-4 times a year. 1-2 times for midi editing and 1-2 times for audio so I'm not really a DAW/Logic user.

    It seems that I have at least 3 possible options if I need to load more than 2.8 GB in Logic: (correct me if I'm wrong here)

    1. Do as I have done previously, work one track at a time in Logic and then "freeze" that track until all tracks are done.

    2. Route midi via IAC from Logic to standalone instances of VE2 and the route audio back to logic for recording. (Haven't done this before so it might take some time to get everything working.)

    3. Upgrade to Logic 9 and invest in VE Pro.

    Any other options?

    (My setup is a Mac Pro 2x2.8 Ghz, 10 GB RAM, Logic 8, Finale 2010)


  • Hey, Albert.

    Here's something you can try while using Logic 8 with VE2.  It's been a while since I've used VE2, but I know I did this in VE3.

    You can make copies of Vienna Ensemble, and rename them (VE 1, VE 2, etc.).  Then, you can load each copy as a new VE implementation.  Each copy you load up, should give you a new 2.8 gig of memory.

    As I said, I don't recall if VE 2 allows this, but I think so.  If it works that way, you can save a lot of money and time!

    Good luck!


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    @dayadon said:

    You can make copies of Vienna Ensemble, and rename them (VE 1, VE 2, etc.).  Then, you can load each copy as a new VE implementation.

    Hi Dennis,

    this is actually what I already have done when working with Finale and VE 2. So, yes, it does work and each copy gives me "new" memory. That is how I've been able to work with this template (ca 5 GB) directly from Finale. (Several standalone VE 2 and send midi from Finale via IAC-buses)

    But as I said earlier, I rarely use Logic (or any other DAW for that matter) so I just remembered that I did not use VE 2 at all last time I did a mockup in Logic. I had problems with controlling automation for the different midi channels when using VE 2 as a "multi instrument" (I think that is what they call it?). Basically, I loaded one VI on each track/channel and had no problems at all.

    So my new question is: Will I be able to make use of more RAM in Logic 9 (64-bit) if I load my VI's directly into Logic? (and not use VE 2/VE Pro at all)

    Is it possible for someone from Vienna to shed some light in this matter?


  • a 64bit VI is currently passing testing cycles ... stay tuned


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @cm said:

    a 64bit VI is currently passing testing cycles ... stay tuned

    thanks christian. Forgive me for being slow but I would still need Logic 9 (64 bit) if I want to exceed the 2-3 GB RAM limit? Right? Or would this be possible in Logic 8 (32 bit) as well with 64bit VI?

    btw, I'm on OS X 10.6.2


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    @cm said:

    a 64bit VI is currently passing testing cycles ... stay tuned

    thanks christian. Forgive me for being slow but I would still need Logic 9 (64 bit) if I want to exceed the 2-3 GB RAM limit? Right? Or would this be possible in Logic 8 (32 bit) as well with 64bit VI?

    btw, I'm on OS X 10.6.2

     

    Actually this is a very good question. Historically VI has worked the same as VE on OSX, using memory outside of the host. If this is still the case with the 64bit version of VI, it seems it would be possible to use the same connector method, enabling you to use a 32bit host, but with this 64bit plug. However, as many Logic users already complain about having an extra click with the current method (poor darlings [;)]), it may well be that it should be hosted the same way as most normal plugs, requiring the 64bit version of the sequencer.

    DG


  • [quote=DG]However, as many Logic users already complain about having an extra click with the current method (poor darlings

    It's not just Logic users DG, it's any sequencer on the Mac.


  • GRRRRRReeeaat News !!!!!!! [Y]


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    @Chuck Green said:

    [quote=DG]However, as many Logic users already complain about having an extra click with the current method (poor darlings

    It's not just Logic users DG, it's any sequencer on the Mac.

     

    Yeah, but it's the Logic users who are whining.  [:P]

    DG


  • Yea,

    That would make sense now that Logic is 64-bit. -- Full memory use and the need for a VSL Instrument GUI that reacts like the native Instrument Interfaces.  Things are looking up.


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    @Chuck Green said:

    Yea,

    That would make sense now that Logic is 64-bit. -- Full memory use and the need for a VSL Instrument GUI that reacts like the native Instrument Interfaces.  Things are looking up.

     

    IMO there also needs to be a feature, like with VE Pro, in all sequencers (does this already exist in DP?)where there is an option to keep samples loaded whilst changing projects. I have experienced the "oh dear I closed the project by mistake" error, costing half an hour of re-loading, so that's why I moved on from VI/VE to VE Pro.

    DG


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    @DG said:

    IMO there also needs to be a feature, like with VE Pro, in all sequencers

    Agree.....


  • Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.....  (uses Logic).  I might have to start a crusade of Logic Whiners and get black hoodies with mascot names on the back and chase down those bully Cubase/Nuendo users.....

    Be afraid, we have infinite whinning powers...  And there are many of us...  Strength in numbers!

    Maestro2be


  • The irony of you and Chuck being amongst the least whiny of Logic users is not lost on me. [Y]

    DG


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    @cm said:

    a 64bit VI is currently passing testing cycles ... stay tuned

    thanks christian. Forgive me for being slow but I would still need Logic 9 (64 bit) if I want to exceed the 2-3 GB RAM limit? Right? Or would this be possible in Logic 8 (32 bit) as well with 64bit VI?

    btw, I'm on OS X 10.6.2

     

    Actually this is a very good question. Historically VI has worked the same as VE on OSX, using memory outside of the host. If this is still the case with the 64bit version of VI, it seems it would be possible to use the same connector method, enabling you to use a 32bit host, but with this 64bit plug. However, as many Logic users already complain about having an extra click with the current method (poor darlings ), it may well be that it should be hosted the same way as most normal plugs, requiring the 64bit version of the sequencer.

    DG

    I just received this reply from VSL support:

    "We are currently finalizing our tests for the next update of Vienna Instruments, which is going to be 64-bit.

    To answer your question: yes, it is going to be possible to instantiate Vienna Instruments 64-bit in a 32-bit host sequencer and still have access to all the RAM installed on your computer!"

    Good news! [:)]


  • [quote=Albert S]We are currently finalizing our tests for the next update of Vienna Instruments, which is going to be 64-bit.

    Christian,

    For us Logic 64-bit users, will the interface respond like the native Logic instruments and the current Spectrasonics 64-bit instruments with a single click or will there still be a server window that one will need to navigate through first before opening the instrument interface?


  • sorry, i haven't see it so far but i'll forward the question to paul ... 


    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • Thank's Christian....