Dear Martin!

I think that it is the right decision to develop VSL-Software 64-bit in direction Intel. PPC was a great platform, but PPC-Users have to understand that Intel-Mac's first coming out was at the end of 2005, so quite 4 years. I understand that there are so many reasons to keep on previous PPC-platform, but Apple will also release a next big update for Logic 9 that is just for Intel and 64-bit because all AU-Plug-developers are currently working on a 64-bit Version to go right with Apple's step into the future.

At the moment Logic 9 works with PPC, but that is just a question of time when Apple will stop the support for PPC in Logic 9 because they say in its description that you need an Intel-MAC. All PPC-Users can be happy at the moment that L9 is also working with PPC, but they cannot hope that Apple will also support PPC-Platforms for further updates in the future.

I need a solution for the memory limit and 64 bit seems to be the possibility to solve this problem.

Windows is not an Alternative system for me to work, I switched from Windows to Mac in 2005 and I never wanna go back, but I am looking forward to get a 64-bit-working software of Vienna for Mac OSX as well as you have already developed for Windows.

Go on with that, VSL, you are on the right way. Thanks for your developments.

Nico. 

I would like to offer a couple of points here: When the Intel machines first came out, the highest quad PPC Mac Pro was still the most powerful machine around and for a while. Additionally, Apple had heavily advertized its 64-bit processing capability boasting about the computer's potential longevity, addressing professionals obviously and not just Internet surfers and Word users.Therefore, as consumers, I don't think we should be taking alleged technological obsolescence for granted. Four years is not enough usage for what would have been then a ca.€5000 machine (including extra RAM and ROM). Clock speeds have not advanced that much since, plus that computer's 64-bit capability would render it much faster than it used to be, and if not state-of-the-art, still a very viable solution for modern standards of work. I stand to be corrected (BUS speeds, cache, etc.), but I mean this post as a more general comment on consumer attitudes towards technology-companies. For my money, €5000 is way too much to be parked on a bulky machine for just Farcebook and games usage, even if someone has already made that money twice over by using it professionally.

Finally and lightheartedly, lest we forget, it is still the only powerful machine that can still run OS 9.x, which I still love (despite its Extensions nightmares). 

Errikos,

I hope you read my post correctly. VE Pro runs both as 32-bit and 64-bit on a PPC as well. We will not officially promote this feature however, since actively supporting too many architectures can be a nightmare for developers and support staff, especially for a small company such as ours.

@ct1961 said:

Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. 

No waiting or mercy needed. VE Pro runs fine even under Leopard in 64-bit on any Core2Duo or more recent Intel Mac. In fact, it will run in 64-bit even on PPC, even if we don't officially support it.

Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply and a brief glimmer of hope!

Unfortunately the early Mac Pros have CoreDuo rather than Core2Duo processors and have seen it stated with some authority that they won't be able to run 64bit apps unless Apple do provide an upgrade.   [:'(]

Colin

@MS said:

Errikos,

I hope you read my post correctly. VE Pro runs both as 32-bit and 64-bit on a PPC as well. We will not officially promote this feature however, since actively supporting too many architectures can be a nightmare for developers and support staff, especially for a small company such as ours.

Although I posted here, I was directing my comments to fellow users about Apple's practices - not the VSL's - and made general comments about obsolescence.

@ct1961 said:

Was looking forward to overcoming the memory limitation with VE Pro but we now appear to be at the mercy of Apple- I'm sure they'd rather we bought a new machine. 

No waiting or mercy needed. VE Pro runs fine even under Leopard in 64-bit on any Core2Duo or more recent Intel Mac. In fact, it will run in 64-bit even on PPC, even if we don't officially support it.

Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply and a brief glimmer of hope!

Unfortunately the early Mac Pros have CoreDuo rather than Core2Duo processors and have seen it stated with some authority that they won't be able to run 64bit apps unless Apple do provide an upgrade.   [:'(]

Colin

In my comments I forgot about the early Core Duo chips. I have - what was an expensive iMac which will be gathering Internet dust sporting that chip, but I don't understand your comment about an "upgrade"... You mean that it would be possible to make a Core Duo chip work in 64 bits?

@Errikos said:

In my comments I forgot about the early Core Duo chips. I have - what was an expensive iMac which will be gathering Internet dust sporting that chip, but I don't understand your comment about an "upgrade"... You mean that it would be possible to make a Core Duo chip work in 64 bits

Yes - this has been posted in several mac forums. Apple, if they so choose, can provide an upgrade to the firmware that will allow the Core Duo based Mac Pros to run in 64bit. Here's hoping..

Colin

@ct1961 said:

Unfortunately the early Mac Pros have CoreDuo rather than Core2Duo processors and have seen it stated with some authority that they won't be able to run 64bit apps unless Apple do provide an upgrade.   [:'(]

Don't cry. All MacPro's have 64-bit capable CPU's, including the very first one (using Intel Woodcrest). The only Intel Macs apple released without 64-bit architecture were the very first Macbook Pro's.

I'll have a look for the forums and a Mac video mag that say we're out of luck. Would naturally like to think you're right Martin!

Colin

@ct1961 said:

Yes - this has been posted in several mac forums. Apple, if they so choose, can provide an upgrade to the firmware that will allow the Core Duo based Mac Pros to run in 64bit. Here's hoping..

I think you are confusing the 32-bit / 64-bit EFI question with CPU architecture. Some older Intel Macs do not have a 64-bit EFI and will not support the 64-bit kernel in SnowLeopard (which you can try out by pressing the keys '6' and '4' while booting).

As default, Snow Leopard runs a 32-bit kernel. There are however not many reasons to run a 64-bit kernel at this stage, since any user application may request and address a true 64-bit address space of its own.

Just to set things straight - we have one of the first MacPro's (Woodcrest) at the VSL office, happily running VE Pro in 64-bit mode. Don't trust magazines or forums too much.

the first macPros which came out had XEON 5100 processors - there has never been a macPro with a CoreDuo or Core2Duo, however the early macBook Pro, intel macMini and iMac had a CoreDuo

http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=mbp

hth, christian

Thanks for the reassurance guys- when I want the truth, I know where to look for it!  [:D]

Colin

 reminds me of the first VSL teaser ... *its not reality, it is the truth*

@MS said:

Don't trust magazines or forums too much.

Apart from this forum. of course. [;)]

DG

In fact, no - there are lots of misconceptions and wrong facts flying around here as well. But in general, I would say the standard is above average [:P]

@ct1961 said:

Yes - this has been posted in several mac forums. Apple, if they so choose, can provide an upgrade to the firmware that will allow the Core Duo based Mac Pros to run in 64bit. Here's hoping..

I think you are confusing the 32-bit / 64-bit EFI question with CPU architecture. Some older Intel Macs do not have a 64-bit EFI and will not support the 64-bit kernel in SnowLeopard (which you can try out by pressing the keys '6' and '4' while booting).

As default, Snow Leopard runs a 32-bit kernel. There are however not many reasons to run a 64-bit kernel at this stage, since any user application may request and address a true 64-bit address space of its own.

Just so I can understand, bottom line, do you think there will be a way where my iMac 2GHz Intel Core Duo will be able to run Snow Leopard even in 32-kernel mode, and will be able to afford a 64-bit application that 64-bit processing power?

@Errikos said:

Just so I can understand, bottom line, do you think there will be a way where my iMac 2GHz Intel Core Duo will be able to run Snow Leopard even in 32-kernel mode, and will be able to afford a 64-bit application that 64-bit processing power?

I don't really understand what you mean. Your iMac 2GHz Intel Core Duo will run Snow Leopard today. It will not ever, no matter how hard you pray, be able to run 64-bit applications. Period.

@MS said:

I don't really understand what you mean. Your iMac 2GHz Intel Core Duo will run Snow Leopard today. It will not ever, no matter how hard you pray, be able to run 64-bit applications. Period.

Thanks for replying; I wasn't praying for anything, it's an iMac, not a €5000 Mac Pro, it's just that I wanted to ascertain its approximate value and got hopeful it would be worth a few more hundred € through Colin's 64-bit-upgrade talk; it seems now that was a misunderstanding on his part.