Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

185,111 users have contributed to 42,379 threads and 255,422 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 4 new thread(s), 12 new post(s) and 61 new user(s).

  • LAN optimization for Vienna Ensemble 3?

    I've just bought two packets of Vienna Ensemble 3 (6 licenses in total)  for my 6 Shuttle Mini XPC X100-HA.

    I've also finished setting up a large (for me!) orchestral template using six instances of VE3 inside Cubase 5. Trying to test the efficiency of my system I created a "tuning orchestra" project just to fastly create 8 bars where ALL instruments play along to each other.

    Now... the problem I'm experiencing is that when I activate ALL the tracks, the audio is completely filled by clicks and pops, even though the music plays continously without interruptions or breaks.

    The strange facts are:

    • Cubase's ASIO meter is stable at around 10%, regardless the number of tracks playing back: it's there from the moment I open a new project using the orchestral template and it doesn't change during playback, with only one track in solo or with the entire project running
    • the CPU used by the HOST PC is about 12-15% during playback; the CPU of each SLAVE is around 5-10%
    • the network bandwidth used by the HOST is about 12%; the net-bw used by each slave is about 5-10%
    • when I playback in SOLO mode ALL the tracks coming from a single Slave, no clicks or pops are audible

    I presume it could be some kind of network optimization on the Host (as the last point above tells that there are no problems in each slave), but I don't know where operate.

    Do you know where I can find a guide about how to optimize my Host for Vienna Ensemble 3? Does it exist?

    Any help is much appreciated!

    HOST: Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus (chipset nForce 650i) + Intel Core2Duo E6600 + 8 GB + Dual Gigabit + 2 x GeForce 7600GT + Windows Vista Home Premum 64 bit + Cubase 5

    SLAVE: Shuttle mini XPC X100-HA + Intel Core2Duo T5600 + 2 GB + Windows XP Home Edition

    Thanks.
    Luigi.


    1.  What soundcard buffer are you using?
    2. Are you using x0, x1 or x2 for VE?
    3. What is the speed of your network?
    4. Are you using a router or a hub?

    DG


  • I suspect one of the questions DG asked is the problem but I am curious.  If you loop the entire piece over and over, enable all the tracks and hit play you should get the pops and clicks you're saying.

    I am curious, if you enable solo mode for ALL tracks and then while playing back gradually uncheck the solo button one track at a time if you eventually return to a normal playback state.

    Do you notice it to be a problem with one slave over another?  I don't know you're setup but maybe your brass slave machine is the major problem or your strings machine.  You could test this by running this huge test, one slave machine at a time.

    You have a lot of machines in the setup so you may need a very high quality switch like a Cisco switch, not some 39.99 switch from Best Buy (if you're using a cheap one like that).

    Maestro2be


  •  Thank you for your replies and sorry for my incomplete informations.

    1. My RME HDSPe AIO is set at 256 samples

    2. All the 6 instances of VE are set at x2.

    3. The Network is Gigabit on all the machines involved.

    4. The connections are done through a ZyXel GS-1116 Gigabit Ethernet Switch

    I can add also that I used exactly the same system and exactly the same template with FX Teleport until today without any problem.

    I've just decided to switch to Vienna Ensemble 3 only because FXT, which worked perfectly under XP64+Cubase4, seems to have a strange attitude with Vista64+Cubase5 (the same orchestral template I used to work on under Cubase4+XP64 with reasonable use of CPU, under Vista64+Cubase5 fill the CPU and it's not possible to playback at all!).

    I thought there were some tricks to disable protocols, services, features to speed up the network.

    Regarding the tracks: as you can read from the last point of my first post, if I playback ALL the tracks coming from a single machine, everything is fine and flawless. So all the Strings tracks are fine (slave 2), and the same it's for Woodwinds (slave 3), for Brass (slave 4), for Piano and Percussion (slave 5), for Harps and Chamber Strings (slave 6) and for Solo Strings (slave 1).

    Thus, every machine works like a charm, playing back all its tracks without any noise.

    The problems start when I try to sum tracks to tracks inside Cubase.

    I will experiment more about that.

    Thanks anyway.

    Luigi.


  • Well you definitely have a nice sound card so that is most likely not your problem.  RME is solid as a rock.  Definitely stay at the x2 setting on your machines.

    It sure seems to me that 6 machines all pushing at once, to one ethernet interface could be a lot of information but could be doable.  You're saying you've done this with FX teleport, but is FX teleport sending midi information, or the complete processed audio data?  Are you also running Plug-ins like reverb on your slaves within your VE3 slaves that you didn't host in your FX teleport?

    Maybe you can give more details such as exactly how many instruments you're loading in VE on your slaves etc.  Might help us help you.

    I don't have that kind of setup to test it but I would be curious if you started from one slave machine, and added one more each time until you hit a brick wall again.  Maybe then we can come up with some other ideas.  Maybe someone already has more ideas.  If I think of more I will let you know.

    Maestro2be


  •  Hi guys,

    I found out something interesting. And for sure the problem of my configuration is hidden behind this detail.

    As I said before, the motherboard of my HOST PC is an Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus. This mb features a Dual Gigabit, so I have two Ethernet ports onboard.

    I always used the system taking advantage of that feature and configuring one port for Internet and the other one for the midi/audio connection.

    So, the Internet port uses a 192.168.1.200 address and is configured to see the gateway and the DSN at 192.168.1.1.

    The "VSL port" is configured on 192.168.0.200, without any gateway and DSN typed in. (every slave is configured the same way as 192.168.0.201, 192.168.0.202, ... ... ... , 192.168.0.206

    Now. The magic is that if I disable the internet port, everything from the VSL side run smoothly!!!

    So there should be something wrong in my IP routing.

    If I send the "route print" screens in both of the configuration (with and without the internet connection on), can someone gently help me to interpret it and, possibly, to fix the configuration? [A]

    Thanks,

    Luigi.


  •  OK, just a couple of thoughts.

    1. Try disabling the Network that you aren't using.
    2. Try playing back at x0 or 01. If this is no better, try upping the buffer on the soundcard to see if that makes any difference (even if live playing is impossible at this buffer).

    One more thing. Is it possible to try VE3 in Cubase 4 to see if it works there?

    DG


    1. Exactly! As I said in my previous post: "The magic is that if I disable the internet port, everything from the VSL side run smoothly!!!"
    2. I played back the same project LIKE A CHARM in both x1 and x2 with a load of 10% measured in the ASIO meter.
      With x0 setting the ASIO CPU increases to 70% in standby and overloads during playback.
    3. This is a good point... and I will try. But you consider that I'm running the Cubase 5 32 bit version, NOT the 64 bit one...
    Can you help me with the route if I post the two different configurations? I'm not so used to fine tune the network at this level of detail and in Vista I'm even worse!
    Many many thanks for your precious time.
    Luigi.


  •  I think that the best thing to do is just to disable the internet port, and re-enable it when you need to go online.

    How are you running the 32bit version? AFAIK the 64bit one loads automatically when it finds a 64bit OS (the shell that you load in Cubase will be the 32bit version though).

    I'm afraid that I know less than nothing about Vista. Sorry.

    DG


  • Yes, you are right. I will disable the internet port.

    Actually I have a laptop over my desk just to surf the web and download files, so it's not a terrible loss to renounce to internet on my Host PC.

    I opened the same project in Cubase 5 64 bit and it seems clear to me that it takes way many more resources than in 32 bit.

    Don't ask me why! [;)]

    Thank you so much.

    Luigi.


  • last edited
    last edited

    @Gemini said:

    Yes, you are right. I will disable the internet port.

    Actually I have a laptop over my desk just to surf the web and download files, so it's not a terrible loss to renounce to internet on my Host PC.

    I opened the same project in Cubase 5 64 bit and it seems clear to me that it takes way many more resources than in 32 bit.

    Don't ask me why!

    Thank you so much.

    Luigi.

    I wouldn't waste any time on Cubase 64bit yet.There is currently no real advantage, and once VE Pro is released you won't need it.

    DG


  • last edited
    last edited

    @DG said:

    I wouldn't waste any time on Cubase 64bit yet.There is currently no real advantage, and once VE Pro is released you won't need it.

    I have exactly the same opinion.

    With Vienna Ensemble Pro (and actually with VE3 as well) the important side of the business is the slave machine, not the Host, as the first experiment posted here by Herb perfectly demonstrates.

    Luigi.


  •  Of course I do the opposite, and do everything on one machine....! [8-|]

    DG


  • A super-machine, I guess! [;)]

    I'm studying more deeply the problem and I noticed that the network shows a bandwidth limit to 12.50% (!!!).

    So, if your current tracks use a percentage of bandwidth below that one, everything run smoothly. Otherwise clicks and pops occur.

    Now the problem is to understand where is configured that sort of limit. I checked the web and they talk about a limit in the QoS management... something to trick with the administrative tools. But that tool (GPEDIT.MSC) doesn't seem to be available in Vista64 Home Premium. Another point is that I removed (not just unckeched) the QoS service from the Connection properties panel... so I don't think the right answer has to be found there.

    Any help... would be more than welcome!

    Luigi.


  • OH MY GOD!

    Don't ask me why, but Vista 64 Home Premium SP1 install my onboard Dual Gigabit as a 10/100/1000 Network Adapter, but allows to set the Autonegotiation up to 100MbpsFD. So... I don't know why, my network adapter is working as a normal 100 Mbps one.

    This is the reason why the bandwidth seemed to be hard-limited to 12.50 %: 12 MB/s is the maximum transfer rate for 10/100 network card. That's incredible! I had to trick the .INF installation file of the driver to manually add the "Autonegotiation for 1000FD"...

    Luigi.


  • last edited
    last edited

    @Gemini said:

    OH MY GOD!

    Don't ask me why, but Vista 64 Home Premium SP1 install my onboard Dual Gigabit as a 10/100/1000 Network Adapter, but allows to set the Autonegotiation up to 100MbpsFD. So... I don't know why, my network adapter is working as a normal 100 Mbps one.

    This is the reason why the bandwidth seemed to be hard-limited to 12.50 %: 12 MB/s is the maximum transfer rate for 10/100 network card. That's incredible! I had to trick the .INF installation file of the driver to manually add the "Autonegotiation for 1000FD"...

    Luigi.

     

    Vista. Ah yes. [:'(]

    The more I think about it, the more that I think it has all the cr*p ideas from OSX, but none of the good ones. [8-)]

    DG


  • Unfortunately, I haven't solved the problem yet. [:@]

    The Dual Gigabit Network Adapters are recognized by Vista as "10/100/1000" but in the list of "Speed/Duplex" settings there are no items related to Gigabit (1000 Mb FD nor 1000 Mb HD). So, under Vista, the two Network Adapters are working as two normal 10/100 ports, causing all my problems with Vienna Ensemble 3.

    The sad thing is that the last driver update from NVidia for Vista 64 (15.25) doesn't help at all. Even though NVidia released that update on March 16th, 2009 and this issue is well known in the NVidia forum, many people are still suffering from this absurd problem.

    The only thing remains to do for me is to change the Motherboard, as I don't have any further room to add a separate PCI NIC card.

    At the end of this story, I can give you a suggestion: don't trust NVidia!!!

    Luigi.


  • I think it could be useful to somebody.

    Trying to solve my annoying problem with NICs in Vista64, I found out some interesting articles about how to improve your network performance in Vista. I think it could be a useful starting point to fine tune our networks to get the best performances for Vienna Ensemble 3.

    Network Throttling Index

    http://www.vistarevisited.com/2008/05/24/how-to-improve-network-performance-in-windows-vista/

    Multimedia Class Scheduler Service

    http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=36178&st=0&p=332216&#entry332216

    Hope this can help.

    Luigi.