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  1. Home
  2. Orchestration & Composition
  3. Your Music
  4. Composers who use samples for art
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    I agree with rk about Guy Bacos - he has done some amazing, virtuosic things with samples that most others are simply not attempting.  Also, I am curious as to what lgrohn listens  to when not programming.  Is it anything like synethesia?   Or is it more like Led Zeppelin?

    PaulR  -   Art of Fugue is bollocks?  I did not realize that.  Thanks very much for clearing that up.
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    @Another User said:

    So if all the metacomposer does is orchestrate/perform (which is essentially the same as selecting instruments/articulations)  it is a huge step down from the past.

    rather than his having a go at Bach.

    But I'm sure he'll be along soon enough to confirm or correct this. 
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    @rk said:

    What type of music do you listen to ? When you're a way from all this programing. Thats where your mind is.

     

    http://www.synestesia.fi/modern_music.html

    PS. Chinese people have downloaded this peace about 40000 times:

    http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/12/lilies.mp3

    Where there minds might be?

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    @rk said:

    What type of music do you listen to ? When you're a way from all this programing. Thats where your mind is.

     

     

    http://www.synestesia.fi/modern_music.html

     

    PS. Chinese people have downloaded this peace about 40000 times:

     

    http://www.synestesia.fi/2007/12/lilies.mp3

     

    Where there minds might be?

    Chainy wants to attack Igran in September ! .............Thats were the minds might be......... Are you sure you don't want to stick to music. And only that. The fun is in Music.
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     Right. There are different musicS for differents contexts. For concert halls, for movies, for exhititions...

     There is not such thing as (single) music.Evaluating some of the musicS in a wrong context may be problematic.
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    @Another User said:

    So if all the metacomposer does is orchestrate/perform (which is essentially the same as selecting instruments/articulations)  it is a huge step down from the past.

     

    rather than his having a go at Bach.

     

    But I'm sure he'll be along soon enough to confirm or correct this. 


    Yeah - William is a senile old twat!! I've forgotton more about Bach that he's ever known.

    Yeah - Tracy Emin - thanks for clearing that up - although have you ever seen Tracy Ullman's unmade bed? It's a mess by all accounts.

    Look - seriously. Samples used in computers to generate noise via some sort of half-assed photograph is NOT ART. It's SHEEEEEEEIIIIITTTEE.
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     Seems that we are back in an old discussion:

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/2134.aspx?PageIndex=5

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    @lgrohn said:

    My software is not using random numbers and the photos used have structure. I guess we are missing the proper word, aleatoric is not right.
     

    You're quite right that it isn't random - perhaps a better word would be unpredictable? Rolling dice is unpredictable, but it is also a deterministic process - it's just that we can't measure or control the factors that influence the result to the degree required to influence the result. Hence it appears random but actually isn't - it's just unpredictable.

    The problem I have with a user of Synestesia calling themself a composer is that they have little direct control over the end result - it's unpredictable. They can influence it of course, but this leads back to my question about aleatoric music. How much unpredictibility is allowable before a composer ceases to be a composer?

    Arguably the composer of the music generated by Synestesia is the program itself, and yet here we hit a snag because the program only does what it is told and by that extension is nothing more than an instrument - an exotic player piano.

    So we go beyond the instrument to look at what is on the 'page', who created it and by extension could be the composer? Once again - a problem. If you take pictures you're a photographer. The artistic criteria that you apply to taking pictures have nothing to do with the notes that will be generated when the picture is fed through Synestesia.

    Even if someone could learn that a certain picture gives a certain result when fed through the program, and they could thus predict the outcome and create images to that end, does that make them a composer? I suppose in theory that's not much different to imagining music, writing it on paper, and having it performed. But doesn't that remove the need for Synestesia? Why not just write it down or record it? The unpredictabilty factor is surely the sine qua non of the program. So that leads us back to my question about aleatoric music.

    This is the crux of the question - is someone, as a user of this software, a composer who uses samples for art?

    Sorry for the ramble - like Nick I find this subject interesting!

    Regards,

    Martin
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    @mosso said:

    This is the crux of the question - is someone, as a user of this software, a composer who uses samples for art?

    Right. I have asked during years many copyright lawyers who is the composer when I generate music or when some other persons generate music using my sw. Or has the person who took the photo anyt rights to the music. I have not got any definite answers.

    It is interesting than during these discussions in different Internet forums, in most cases the claim is that I am the composer because I am using some parameters (instruments etc). Now in this thread most writers seem to think that I am not.

    My system is still experimental has quite a many parameters that a not usually used (=changed). All parameters are global. Because my sw generates a midi file that could be changed (which I never do), how many changes should I make to validate as a composer?

    My own opinion? My sw is the composer. I have only commissioned the pieces from my sw.

    PS. 

    The piece RAIN

    http://www.myspace.com/synestesiasoftware

    was presented here in a Music Festival a month ago:

    http://www.musiikinaika.org/138_4.html

    The painting "rain" was shown in front of the audience as a metascore.

    I asked the Artistic Director to put Synestesia Software as a composer, but he put my name to the program...

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    As many changes as J.S. Bach and Ludwig von Beethoven made in the twelve tone scale.

    Then you will be  validated as a composer.
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     I deny that PaulR knows more about Bach than I do.

    Actually, on second thought, I take that back.  I realized some time ago it is not wise to cross The Limey.
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    Lauri Having been through the mill, Kirstened. And toiled. I think you're very Clever and stumbled into a Kitaro sound of plucking with the pizz strings. Who would ever thunk you'de get those type of Fans. Will you be appearing in tinamens square any time soon ? Wonder what these samples will stumble into tomorrow ? Good luck. And all the best. Don't forget us.
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     The total donwloads of the computer generated and played piece LILIES until the end of July have been 62260 times...

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    As to my best recollections; This is my Feelings towards the artistic vein towards Samples............................ (Pic Flute - Yellow to white) / (Flutes - Light Blue to thallus blue to yellow) / (Oboes - Orange to Green to Dark yellow) / (Clarinets - Blues to Greens to dark yellow) / (Bass Clarinet - Deep Blue to Greens to light blues) / (Bassoons - Black to Purple to Lavender to orange to Blue to Green)............ (Trumpets - light Brass or Red to yellow brass) / (French Horn - Red Brass) / (Trombones - Deep Brass Red to Medium Brass Plum) / (Tuba - Black Brass to plum Brass)................... (Violins - braze to light orange to yellow) / (Viola - Braze to deep orange to yellow) / (Cello - dark Braze to deep orange to yellow) / (Bass - Black to Deep brazin to dark orange)........................... Key of C - White / Key of G - Yellow to orange / Key of D - Greens and Blues / Key of A - Orange and Greens / Key of E - Gold red and Oranges / Key of B - Brown, lavenders and Deep blues / Key of F# - Purple, dark blues / Key of Db - Deep Blue to blues to deep lavender / Key of Ab - Blues to Light Blues to thallus rose / Key of Eb - Blues to greens to light magenta / Key of Bb - Greens to blues / Key of F - Blues to yellows / Key of C - White...........................Angelo : i added the second position on this 5th. Printing. Please let me know if you approve, telepathically & under remote viewing .....Anyone trying to promote my name underconcideration will Be Blocked. In short ; Billy Bob will cut your thing off. Its cheeper than paying thousands a day for Security..................In return as a Complimentary to those who care to study. Link to my Book for a Free Download - About 94 megs : https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01IbUpjNDJmVFpFQlE9PQ
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    Robert

    I am on a top secret capostolic mission in the 11th century...

    MMMMCMXCIX

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/aykmfb

    Sincerely

    Rudolph of Hagenwil

    Knight of the Order of the Golden Fleece

    King of Thurgovia, Neuchâtel. La Chaux-de-Fonds, Alsace

    Duke of San Morellino, Montalcino, Sovanna, Monte Argentario and Porto Santo Stefano

    Ordre de Saint-Georges

    Grand Cross of Chickism
    Order of the Moor El-Andalus

    Ordre de Saint-Andrea

    Counter Pope of Avignon et Hobby-Samurai

    Archbishop of Newbiechickism

    .
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    AH....Saint-Georges...!
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    But who is actually USING these samples for artistic purposes? Like for a CD you could never do without them? Or anything else that is an artistic project (as opposed to a paid-for gig).

    I want links!

    Here are some uses I know of -

    Soenke Schnapel who did the extreme atonal demo from "The Darkness Project" Please write in that link if you are there, Soenke

    Robert Kaye with his wonderful solo string music.

    My own stuff, which right now is Romantic Symphony (which was recorded with the First Edition but I am working on two other CDS that use Vienna Ensemble)

    What else? Aren't there any more people doing this? Please write in your links if there are...
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    My little side-project, "mr. wheet" is done using VSL stuff, and would be quite impossible (at least for me) without it. Mind you, it is all quite "playable" by live musicians, so, in a sense, the samples are still playing a "substitute" role - filling in for the real thing... I've finally finished a full mr. wheet album, which I hope to release somehow, somewhere, sometime soon, but it's not available yet. I also hope to start a second album, before too long, which will be much less "hyperreal" than this one - much less dependent on the limitations (and sounds) of "live" instruments, and thus more "experimental" (though I'm kind of irritated by the use of that word with regard to music).

    http://www.myspace.com/mrwheetuk

    The last track, "Wake up away", is actually a remix of a friend's tune. It has some VSL stuff, but it's kind of a different deal.

    J.
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    William The current and one of the best Composers in England today. Is Brian Cunningham. In which I'm grateful to. He immediately recognizes others who are, in producing their music themselves. He has a CD out. Called Dreamthemes. He is a Baroque specialist in the tradition of Bach and Telleman. But is seasoned of all styles. He is at the level and favors the traditional style of Composition. For ex; of Ennio Murricone. He has even used his Point counterpoint in Orchestrating Samples in which make nothing but musical reverbed static sounds. Something I've never heard anyone use. His Educational level is: Oxford Music Graduate / The London Royal College of Music. And He's a VSL member here on this forum. Anyone wants to learn how its done with a level of skill non other with samples. Should check him out. Brian-Cunningham.com He's the only one I'm aware of Who has Produced a CD of Classical Music. There are a couple of others whom are new. But not finished their CD's yet. Thanks for all your help Brian. I'm getting ready to start back again here shortly. It took me 12 years to complete my learning curve. ( Studies & Programming ) to accomplish my CD. I've also accumulated the material for the next CD already. And I've been working outside all summer to get back in shape for this winters harvest. Should take only one season to produce from here on. Back on bird food and water diet again. And a whole lot of Different Exciting surprises in Stores......... Jbm, nice to hear your material. Keep it going.
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    That is interesting jbm, though I wasn't able to listen.  I don't think that the fact that the sampled performance is playable live is a drawback.  In fact, a system for work that seems very desirable is the creation of new music which the composer can realize immediately - with samples - and even release that as a recording, but he is not cut off from live acoustic performance the way a purely electronic musician is because it can also be written out and performed in the traditional way.