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  4. Composers who use samples for art
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    @mosso said:

    This is the crux of the question - is someone, as a user of this software, a composer who uses samples for art?

    Right. I have asked during years many copyright lawyers who is the composer when I generate music or when some other persons generate music using my sw. Or has the person who took the photo anyt rights to the music. I have not got any definite answers.

    It is interesting than during these discussions in different Internet forums, in most cases the claim is that I am the composer because I am using some parameters (instruments etc). Now in this thread most writers seem to think that I am not.

    My system is still experimental has quite a many parameters that a not usually used (=changed). All parameters are global. Because my sw generates a midi file that could be changed (which I never do), how many changes should I make to validate as a composer?

    My own opinion? My sw is the composer. I have only commissioned the pieces from my sw.

    PS. 

    The piece RAIN

    http://www.myspace.com/synestesiasoftware

    was presented here in a Music Festival a month ago:

    http://www.musiikinaika.org/138_4.html

    The painting "rain" was shown in front of the audience as a metascore.

    I asked the Artistic Director to put Synestesia Software as a composer, but he put my name to the program...

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    As many changes as J.S. Bach and Ludwig von Beethoven made in the twelve tone scale.

    Then you will be  validated as a composer.
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     I deny that PaulR knows more about Bach than I do.

    Actually, on second thought, I take that back.  I realized some time ago it is not wise to cross The Limey.
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    Lauri Having been through the mill, Kirstened. And toiled. I think you're very Clever and stumbled into a Kitaro sound of plucking with the pizz strings. Who would ever thunk you'de get those type of Fans. Will you be appearing in tinamens square any time soon ? Wonder what these samples will stumble into tomorrow ? Good luck. And all the best. Don't forget us.
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     The total donwloads of the computer generated and played piece LILIES until the end of July have been 62260 times...

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    As to my best recollections; This is my Feelings towards the artistic vein towards Samples............................ (Pic Flute - Yellow to white) / (Flutes - Light Blue to thallus blue to yellow) / (Oboes - Orange to Green to Dark yellow) / (Clarinets - Blues to Greens to dark yellow) / (Bass Clarinet - Deep Blue to Greens to light blues) / (Bassoons - Black to Purple to Lavender to orange to Blue to Green)............ (Trumpets - light Brass or Red to yellow brass) / (French Horn - Red Brass) / (Trombones - Deep Brass Red to Medium Brass Plum) / (Tuba - Black Brass to plum Brass)................... (Violins - braze to light orange to yellow) / (Viola - Braze to deep orange to yellow) / (Cello - dark Braze to deep orange to yellow) / (Bass - Black to Deep brazin to dark orange)........................... Key of C - White / Key of G - Yellow to orange / Key of D - Greens and Blues / Key of A - Orange and Greens / Key of E - Gold red and Oranges / Key of B - Brown, lavenders and Deep blues / Key of F# - Purple, dark blues / Key of Db - Deep Blue to blues to deep lavender / Key of Ab - Blues to Light Blues to thallus rose / Key of Eb - Blues to greens to light magenta / Key of Bb - Greens to blues / Key of F - Blues to yellows / Key of C - White...........................Angelo : i added the second position on this 5th. Printing. Please let me know if you approve, telepathically & under remote viewing .....Anyone trying to promote my name underconcideration will Be Blocked. In short ; Billy Bob will cut your thing off. Its cheeper than paying thousands a day for Security..................In return as a Complimentary to those who care to study. Link to my Book for a Free Download - About 94 megs : https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01IbUpjNDJmVFpFQlE9PQ
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    Robert

    I am on a top secret capostolic mission in the 11th century...

    MMMMCMXCIX

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/aykmfb

    Sincerely

    Rudolph of Hagenwil

    Knight of the Order of the Golden Fleece

    King of Thurgovia, Neuchâtel. La Chaux-de-Fonds, Alsace

    Duke of San Morellino, Montalcino, Sovanna, Monte Argentario and Porto Santo Stefano

    Ordre de Saint-Georges

    Grand Cross of Chickism
    Order of the Moor El-Andalus

    Ordre de Saint-Andrea

    Counter Pope of Avignon et Hobby-Samurai

    Archbishop of Newbiechickism

    .
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    AH....Saint-Georges...!
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    But who is actually USING these samples for artistic purposes? Like for a CD you could never do without them? Or anything else that is an artistic project (as opposed to a paid-for gig).

    I want links!

    Here are some uses I know of -

    Soenke Schnapel who did the extreme atonal demo from "The Darkness Project" Please write in that link if you are there, Soenke

    Robert Kaye with his wonderful solo string music.

    My own stuff, which right now is Romantic Symphony (which was recorded with the First Edition but I am working on two other CDS that use Vienna Ensemble)

    What else? Aren't there any more people doing this? Please write in your links if there are...
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    My little side-project, "mr. wheet" is done using VSL stuff, and would be quite impossible (at least for me) without it. Mind you, it is all quite "playable" by live musicians, so, in a sense, the samples are still playing a "substitute" role - filling in for the real thing... I've finally finished a full mr. wheet album, which I hope to release somehow, somewhere, sometime soon, but it's not available yet. I also hope to start a second album, before too long, which will be much less "hyperreal" than this one - much less dependent on the limitations (and sounds) of "live" instruments, and thus more "experimental" (though I'm kind of irritated by the use of that word with regard to music).

    http://www.myspace.com/mrwheetuk

    The last track, "Wake up away", is actually a remix of a friend's tune. It has some VSL stuff, but it's kind of a different deal.

    J.
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    William The current and one of the best Composers in England today. Is Brian Cunningham. In which I'm grateful to. He immediately recognizes others who are, in producing their music themselves. He has a CD out. Called Dreamthemes. He is a Baroque specialist in the tradition of Bach and Telleman. But is seasoned of all styles. He is at the level and favors the traditional style of Composition. For ex; of Ennio Murricone. He has even used his Point counterpoint in Orchestrating Samples in which make nothing but musical reverbed static sounds. Something I've never heard anyone use. His Educational level is: Oxford Music Graduate / The London Royal College of Music. And He's a VSL member here on this forum. Anyone wants to learn how its done with a level of skill non other with samples. Should check him out. Brian-Cunningham.com He's the only one I'm aware of Who has Produced a CD of Classical Music. There are a couple of others whom are new. But not finished their CD's yet. Thanks for all your help Brian. I'm getting ready to start back again here shortly. It took me 12 years to complete my learning curve. ( Studies & Programming ) to accomplish my CD. I've also accumulated the material for the next CD already. And I've been working outside all summer to get back in shape for this winters harvest. Should take only one season to produce from here on. Back on bird food and water diet again. And a whole lot of Different Exciting surprises in Stores......... Jbm, nice to hear your material. Keep it going.
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    That is interesting jbm, though I wasn't able to listen.  I don't think that the fact that the sampled performance is playable live is a drawback.  In fact, a system for work that seems very desirable is the creation of new music which the composer can realize immediately - with samples - and even release that as a recording, but he is not cut off from live acoustic performance the way a purely electronic musician is because it can also be written out and performed in the traditional way. 

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    Yes, I think that's partly why I sort of gravitated toward "playable" writing; I hadn't really decided for sure that this would be strictly recording-based music. I was still hedging my bets, in a sense, and leaving the potential for performance open.

    But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. It's an interesting challenge, to me. And I'm also curious what sorts of sounds can be made using VSL as a starting-point. That is, using sampled orchestral instruments as a sort of "raw waveform" for producing new sounds. I've used a process like this in creating music for contemporary dance, in the past, but I think there's still loads of room for exploration...

    cheers,

    J.
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    William Her's the link you wanted. This Cd can be purchased at all major retail outlets. I-Tunes, Cd baby ..etc.. This link is to Last.FM in which one can hear the complete CD Free. Ther's 7 Movements to This Quintet. All in which was completed on VSL Pro edition. Complete Score is Available. 436 pages. I wrote performed and produced it in Logic pro 7 .........http://www.last.fm/music/Robert+Kaye/Quintet%2BNo%2B2%2B%252F%2BString%2BQuartet%2B%2526%2BPiano?autostart
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     Artistic tapestry, anyway:

    http://www.synestesia.com/

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    But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. -jbm

    I am also interested in this as there are many things that samples can do - contrary to what people usually state - that live players cannot or don't want to do.  For  example, immensely long droning tones,  extended high registers, different tunings, impossible combinations of time signatures, etc.  All of this is not only practical with samples, it is child's play.  So to use those things specifically is very important. I feel that certain compsoers of the past like Ligetti were writing things like that before samples existed...
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    @William said:

    ...For  example, immensely long droning tones,  extended high registers, different tunings, impossible combinations of time signatures, etc.  All of this is not only practical with samples, it is child's play...



    Ah, too true! And what's really curious is that, if you went ahead and wrote some fantastic music this way, players of the future would probably drive themselves like dogs trying to master the technique necessary to pull it off! 😉

    J.
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    @jbm said:


    But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. .
     

    Here you wiil find one key piano glissandos:

    http://www.kolumbus.fi/lauri.grohn/exp/experiments1.html

    Birds:

    http://www.kolumbus.fi/lauri.grohn/exp/birds2.mp3

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    "But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live." - jbm

    I would say that about 95% of what is written for samples cannot be played live.

    Not because it is new and original as jbm is  thinking (quite admirably), but for a much more mundane reason, the same reason that 95% of film ideas cannot be filmed.

    Commerce.

    The unfortunate fact is, live symphony orchestras cost a huge amount of money. And most composers who get their music played are mainly businessmen who know how to sell and promote.  Far more than they know how to compose in most cases.  The greatest composers are utter klutzes when it comes to promotion and selling.  Just look at the entire history of music -  Schubert's 9th symphony sitting in a drawer for years after he died is the one that sticks in my craw - and you will understand what I mean.

    So that is what I ultimately mean about using samples for art - it is a revolution in that it allows people to bypass this degradation by money that has existed throughout all the history of music. 
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    @William said:

    The unfortunate fact is, live symphony orchestras cost a huge amount of money. And most composers who get their music played are mainly businessmen who know how to sell and promote.  Far more than they know how to compose in most cases.  The greatest composers are utter klutzes when it comes to promotion and selling.  Just look at the entire history of music -  Schubert's 9th symphony sitting in a drawer for years after he died is the one that sticks in my craw - and you will understand what I mean.

    So that is what I ultimately mean about using samples for art - it is a revolution in that it allows people to bypass this degradation by money that has existed throughout all the history of music. 

     

    There seems to be businessmen who realise music by using samples for composer businessmen who sell they products to film directors.