If there is a deadline on an upgrade you can be certain there is a new product right around the corner.

Just my opinion. 

Although it does absolutely not affect me, I'm still very dissappointed to read, that those old discount-pathes are cancelled.

I mean: You gave a promise and now you are going to break it for a reason you still didn't mentioned (sorry, but "it's not possible" is really a way to lame ... you can't expect anyone here to buy that).

I really don't get it ...

Why are you going to destroy the sympathy I and probably most other VSL users have to your company ?

Come on ... stay on the light side of the force ...

Sorry vsl but :

for the near future

there is also Garitan with GOS 2 and P.Sidlaczek with samplemodeling.

Seeing the last adverts for the now discountinued sample libraries, advertising the VIP program, really aggravates me! As stated in one of the above postes; this was still happening towards the end of 2007!

Those unfortunate enough to jump at this possibility, buying the complete Pro Edition only to find out 8 months later that their upgrade possibilies will be gone within 3 (6) months if they aren't willing to "invest" an even larger amount of money right away. Thats ALOT of money put into your product partly based on the fact that you would be able to upgrade to future products with a discounted price.

The most outrageous about all this becomes apparent when you compare the VIP program with other software (alot more affordable I might add) which keeps unannounced upgrade paths open for several years, through several different version releases. But VSL actually went out and advertised the upgrade possibilies, it has been used as a specific reason to invest money in their respective products.

And now; the upgrade paths will be removed...there won't be any. The advertised statement is not kept, it's not modified, it just ceases to exist.

Well...atleast there is some progress. Six is better than three months. Thanks extended to the VSL company.

But is it good good enough? Considering some of the theories put forward by other posters; if there's to be another Cube or some new technology on the way, and this is a step to exclude some users from possible new upgrade paths it will be even worse, as this is a such a u-turn comparted to what has always been advertised. Although this would be pure speculation...I hope.

Tom-Erlend Malm

I am a Horizon user and have been seriously considering upgrading to the complete VI Cube. However, I'm very concerned as to whether this is a wise choice at this time as I witness the dirge of cries from previous VSL users who are about to loose their upgrade paths. I am interested in a long-term "license" investment where there will be continued support and upgrade paths without a "time gun" held to my head. I would like to make the choice of when to purchase and when to upgrade myself rather than being forced with an upgrade ultimatum that would result in a significant loss for me (or lost opportunity to carry on in the investment I have made thus far). With a policy of time-limited upgrade paths and sudden changes, how can the company gain the lasting support and trust of its user base? And without this continued support, how would the company be able to support my investment? And with a "sample-locked" dongle-based product, the well-being of the company is extremely important to me. Might it be wiser for me to invest in a smaller product such as the SE given the instability or possible changes this situation forebodes?

Please VSL, with such little time left now for me to make financial arrangements and reach a decision (prices are going up 10% in the US in 3 weeks), tell me how my investment will be secure in the future or I will have serious reservations about investing in the full VI Cube at this time. Offering users only 3-month extension (still with impending price increase in 3 weeks) doesn't seem like a serious solution as you are still cutting many off and it doesn't address the issue of trust, credibility, and my future investment. Plus, retailer might be concerned as well as I have no time to purchase from them, install, and reach the deadline before prices of extended libs go up - so I have no choice really but to purchase directly from you (even though retailers off me a cheaper solution). Certainly what you have created so far is a magnificent world-class product, and possibly with the exception of EvanEvans, I think everyone else might agree. However, with a policy of pulling the upgrade rug from such an important and large group of current users, how will VSL continue to grow and flourish? Are more and more expensive product sustainable? Are cheaper products around the corner that might undermine a current investment? Anyone with opinions or suggestions on making this upgrade investment please chime in as I'm suddenly seriously concerned as to what my best course of action is given this disturbing turn of events.

Deeply concerned,

Gregory D. Moore

Hi All

Just grabbing the end of this thread having not had chance to read everyone's comments... but... I just wanted to say something.. (I'm sorry

if someone else has said this!)

I'm lucky... I (like many on here) make a good living writing music and have felt that for the last few years VSL has been a great help in this.

I was an early user and am lucky enough to be able to upgrade all along and currently own everything that VSL make... all of which is used daily

and all of which is universally amazing in it's quality.

But.... For someone who spent the £2500 (or whatever it was at the time.. whatever, it was a LOT of money for me then!) to be told that if my circumstances hadn't changed, and that I HADN'T been able to upgrade yet that my right to do so at a reasonable rate was being determined by people spending £300 of £400 on a library that it was stated from day one would hold no upgrade path... I would be furious! Surely some respect for early users is due. When I bought into this noone had a clue who VSL were, how successful they would be come, and what their libraries were like to use. We all lept in with a lot of trust and faith.

Anyone that CAN afford to update to VI.. do it.. as soon as you can... they really ARE amazing. As I said, luckily this announcement hasn't affected me but I do feel that the reasons given don't tally up in my head.

Just my opinion

Cheers

Ty Unwin

 The number and intensity of comments on this thread are evidence of how problematic VSL's change of policy is. As I have said several times in earlier posts, this policy change does not affect me personally. I never purchased the First or Pro Edition - - I have licenses for the standard part of the Symphonic Cube, the Bösendorfer, and the complete (standard and extended) solo string library. So, however I might question the wisdom of this decision, I have no personal stake in the outcome.

My attitude towards the folks at VSL is that of a friend. I am deeply respectful of the quality, intellectual brilliance and commitment to excellence that VSL's products demonstrate.  If I am critical of VSL's recent policy decision, my criticism is that of a friend suggesting to his friend that an announced course of action may not be in my friend's long-term interest.

That said, one has to analyze why a company might make a decsion that even a novice could predict would be a public relations disaster. What this decision suggests is that VSL is under financial pressure. The problem may be that the market for the kind of excellence demonstrated by VSL products is relatively small. In this context selling and reselling the same samples to the same audience might become a matter of economic survival. I have no doubt, given the idealistic nature of the entire project in which VSL has engaged, that they meant what they said about the VIP upgrade path when they originally announced it. But, it would seem, circumstances have changed. If this speculation is correct, then the question is what is the best way to deal with the change in circumstances. Is it, for example, wise to risk alienating a significant part of the customer base and to risk, further, the loss of trust that this recent policy change engenders among committed professional customers? If a promise made so explicitly - - and so recently - - can be breached, what certainty can customers have that any new promises will be kept? 

At the same time, one has to recognize that economic survival has to be the first aim of any company - - no matter how idealistic its intentions. Look, for example, at music notation software. The worldwide demand for sophisticated music notation software is such that it has been able to support the ongoing development of only two applications, both produced, until recently, by small, financially shaky corporations. (Sibelius was recently acquired by Avid, a far larger, more financially secure company.) Anyone who works with Finale can perceive that, although it is probably the most flexible notational software, it is saddled with many layers of legacy code. I am sure that the folks at MakeMusic (Finale's parent company) would love to remedy this situation and do a complete rewrite so that the program would not exhibit anomalies such as huge consumption of CPU power for simple MIDI playback, but the problem is, most likely, that they cannot afford to hire the programming talent to accomplish this and that, to survive, they must come up with a new version of the program every single year. 

Perhaps it would be better for VSL to take its customers into confidence and state the facts of the situation rather than to provide lame cover stories. I suspect that many customers would feel more positively, if VSL simply stated that they could not afford to continue their original upgrade policy and that, to provide support for ongoing development, they have, very regretfully, been forced to break the promises they originally made. Being frank about the facts of the situation might go a long way to renew the culture of trust and collaboration that has, hitherto, existed between VSL and its customers. After all, we are musicians, so most of us know something about the conflict between ideals and economic reality. 

It saddens me to read this thread. I do not own any VSL products but am seriously considering either the SE package or Appasionatta strings. I have always thought of VSL as the "Rolls Royce" of orchestral samples and finally have thecash to start out. It is so sad to see so many loyal customers frustrated by what feels like a very poor marketing decision.

Imagine if the brochure read "Pay for the same samples twice" or "The VIP program is subject to change at anytime" A lot of people may have thought twice. I still belive that VSL makes the best orchestral sample lib but there are alternatives. Kirk Hunter offers a heck of a deal for a lot less money. As does EW and a few others.  I think Herb and his team run a class act. Pricey, but arguably the best product of it's kind. It seems a shame to tarnish such a reputation with this announcement.

Sincerely,

Darren

Awesome.

2 Years after spending +$1000 on my Opus 1 and 2 the product is discontinued, replaced, and my upgrade is being taken away. I should mention I got in my last year of my music undergrad and as a new and young composer/producer I literally can't afford to upgrade. If I had known things would work out like this I would have NEVER bought Opus 1 and 2. 

After this annoucement even if I had the money to upgrade I'd be taking advantage of EastWest's 20th Anniversary "Buy one get one free" deal instead. VSL makes great products but there is no way I can support a company that treats it's users like this. VSL has lost me as a customer, I will not be buying from them again.

@benbartlett said:

The Cube is no longer on my shopping list, whereas the piece meal packages probably will be. Ultimately, as a professional, I would rather divert my budget towards sessions of REAL strings etc than spend the equivalent to have, lets face it, samples.

@shredordead said:

Awesome.

2 Years after spending +$1000 on my Opus 1 and 2 the product is discontinued, replaced, and my upgrade is being taken away. I should mention I got in my last year of my music undergrad and as a new and young composer/producer I literally can't afford to upgrade. If I had known things would work out like this I would have NEVER bought Opus 1 and 2. 

After this annoucement even if I had the money to upgrade I'd be taking advantage of EastWest's 20th Anniversary "Buy one get one free" deal instead. VSL makes great products but there is no way I can support a company that treats it's users like this. VSL has lost me as a customer, I will not be buying from them again.

I'm pretty much with you there. I was intending to buy everything, including all the newer special libraries.  Even after this announcement I thought of loading up a credit card to manage all the upgrades now. We'd decided that all the 'slack' in our budget, for the next few months, was being put aside for VSL, so I figured if I could get a 0% credit deal, then paying it off would just be the same commitment, except I end up with the libraries up-front.

The problem is I no longer trust them. Their products are frankly not that much better than the rest, but are massively more expensive. I've been paying that because of their business model, which it now turns out was a lie. I could go £2500 into debt to buy the VIs that I don't have, only to be told my product is obsolete on July15th, and that I need to pay another £6000 or so if I want continued support. With the whole world of computing currently up in the air, with 64bit not yet fully working, with Vista not yet being a clear option, etc, there is every opportunity for the VSL people to make sure that the VIs we purchase cease to function some time soon, and force us all to upgrade again.

I won't be taking the risk.

Apart from the fact that this VSL ad does say that the VIP offer will last a "lifetime", I also note that it uses the word "investment" (which some on this board have suggested is incorrect!).

The First Edition if my memory serves me right was discontinued the 15th of semptember 2005.

But both the Pro Edition and the Horizon series were still here by the end of last summer. They were discontiued the 16th of september 2007.

The close-out sale included an advertisment (VSL own newsletter) that stated:

"What’s more, your purchase qualifies you for fantastic upgrade possibilities to our Vienna Instruments Collections!".

This is a direct quote from the VSL newsletter. Other advertisments of the VIP program has been quoted by other posters, and as I've said before...the cancellation of the "old" VIP path is a complete u-turn regarding their policy.

If you took advantage of the close-out sale, which have to be regarded as a best-case-scenario in terms of expenditures, you would have spent almost 3000 (2861 euro + taxes to be exact) euroes on the complete Pro Edition. Now this sale was at the end of last summer with the "promise" of upgrade possibilites.

Now, not even one year later those upgrade paths will be removed. So if you got into VSL last fall, spending 2861 euros (sale price) on the Pro Edition, you would now have to spend another 5410 € to get your "promised" discount. I don't know about you guys, but in my view 8271 € + taxes is a huge amount of money. And this would pretty much be the best case scenario when it comes to money spent. Others have paid much more. What has also been pointed out by other posters, this is just the amount spent on the sample library. You can't make music with that alone, now can you? Customers believed in the VSL company. Believed in their product and in their policies. Thats what makes it possible to spend these kinds of amounts on this kind of product. How can anyone blame us for feeling in some way cheated?

Yeah...maybe this is a typical way to go for a company, and yeah we probably won't get far with this as it is not our decision to make. But morally? Please don't even try to defend it. But just to mention one thing regarding this from a markeding (PR or CR) point of view, this decision by the VSL company has left a whole business class, including the professor quite puzzled.

Reply to the earlier post about the diffuculty of reading single blocks of text...

Apparently there's a bug with Safari in which formatting isn't represented.  No matter how many line breaks you enter, posts show as a single block of text. I went back and edited my earlier posts using Firefox. 

FYI for Safari users.

Fred Story 

@Pingu said:

With the whole world of computing currently up in the air, with 64bit not yet fully working

This is not true, as far as VSL is concerned. Obviously on OSX this is partially true, but VSL can't be held to account for Apple's failure to deliver.

I wasn't specifically talking about whether VSL is 64bit compatible yet. I was referring to the fact that 64bit options for hardware and software haven't yet settled down - for instance neither Vista nor X64 is a viable operating system for music making as a whole, even though the VIs run on them. As yet it's unclear how things will settle. Clearly there need to be some serious changes to operating systems, drivers, most sequencers, etc. All of which will eventually present a very different environment for the VIs, and there is no guarantee that VSL won't charge us yet again to maintain their compatibility.

Thanks Fred.

 I wondered what was going wrong.

@herb said:

Regarding all requests for a longer upgrade period:

on July 15th the new upgrade price calculating system will be activated, so we can't check automatically the old upgrade prices after July 15th.

Anybody who wants to upgrade, but can't manage it till July 15th, can make a reservation at his distributor or send us an email

sales@vsl.co.at 

 

If we get these reservations before July 15th we can calculate the upgrade prices and make a note to your account, which we will keep for another 3 month.

 

But please note that the free extended offer will defenitely end on July 15th.

 

best

Herb