hi
I'm looking to run Logic 8 and Sibelius 5 on a 3.0 ghz quad core 64bit apple.I'd like to use the Vi as playback sounds while scoring on the Sibelius and transfer that arrangement to the logic for mixing,again using the Vi's as the sound source... .Is there a way of making the two programs interact easily in the same machine so it's preety seemless? My knowledge of computers is very basic so any help would be excellent!!
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Logic-sibelius running VI
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Hello Brian!
I recommend using Sibelius 5.1 with Vienna Ensemble (free download for our registered users). You can do the mixing with Vienna Ensemble and do not have to transfer the arrangement to Logic.
For a detailed description of how to use Sibelius with the Vienna Ensemble follow this link: http://www.sibelius.com/helpcenter/resources/soundsets.htmlAndi
Vienna Symphonic Library
Vienna Symphonic Library -
hi Andi thanks...does that mean i can load Vienna Instruments (16 instances) to the VE? Ive read elsewhere here that you can add more than one VE programme,2 or more,each allocated 2 gig of comp. memory? Would that give me 32 instances of VI ?That way i could really use the RAM (8 gig) installed. Sorry-i cant access the link you sent because its only for current Sibelius users- I've not yet bought the Sibelius programme. I'm currently using the Vienna Symphonic Library i bought with my ac G5 5 years ago-believe it or not,i haven't registered it!!! cheers!
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@dreamthemes said:
hi Andi thanks...does that mean i can load Vienna Instruments (16 instances) to the VE? Ive read elsewhere here that you can add more than one VE programme,2 or more,each allocated 2 gig of comp. memory? Would that give me 32 instances of VI ?That way i could really use the RAM (8 gig) installed. Sorry-i cant access the link you sent because its only for current Sibelius users- I've not yet bought the Sibelius programme. I'm currently using the Vienna Symphonic Library i bought with my ac G5 5 years ago-believe it or not,i haven't registered it!!! cheers!No, I'm afraid that you will only be able to use up to 3GB within Sibelius on a Mac. For any more, you will need to use standalone instances, together with an audio loopback like Soundflower.
DG
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hi DG would that be a loop back from standalones in Logic to Sibelius or dedicated, networked machines? Can you tell me if its a different case on a 64 bit windows machine? thanks
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One comment:
In my experience, SoundFlower does not work well. At least on my G5 - playback is consistently marred by clicks and pops. Possibly it works better on an Intel machine - - but I wouldn't count on it. Some people have reported more success with Jack OSX, but I have not tried it.
On the other hand, for loopback - - sending the audio signal of the VE standalone back into a DAW - - hardware solutions do work very reliably. Audio interfaces made by RME and Symphony card based audio interfaces made by Apogee are accompanied by software that allows any output to be "looped back" to any input. I use a MOTU 2408 which is not graced with such software. It does, however, have three ADAT inputs and three ADAT outputs divided into 3 banks. I run a short ADAT cable from the output of ADAT bank C to the input of ADAT bank B - - then I set the first VE standalone to output on channels 17-18 and in Logic, I create an AUX channel whose input is the first stereo pair of Bank B (channels 9-10) and whose output channels 1-2. This setup introduces increased latency but this can be significantly reduced if the "Helper" I/O plugin that comes with Logic is inserted in the AUX channel with its (the plugin's) ins and outs set to correspond to the inputs and outputs of the AUX channel.
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It's relevant to me-I am trying to weigh up which 64 bit platform i should go for. Apple is an expensive way to go, so if windows is a more open ended and powerful system, of course i will go windows,but i have very little tech knowledge. Thanks though DG
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@dreamthemes said:
It's relevant to me-I am trying to weigh up which 64 bit platform i should go for. Apple is an expensive way to go, so if windows is a more open ended and powerful system, of course i will go windows,but i have very little tech knowledge. Thanks though DGIf you go for Windows then you have to write Logic out of the equation.
The best thing to do is to work out exactly what you need to do and then get the OS that provides this. Currently Apple, despite the hype, is not a 64bit platform, even though the OS is. Unless you have some insider knowledge as to when that will change, you may be waiting a few months.
Whatever you choose. I'm afraid that you will need some technical knowledge. There is no such thing as a trouble free platform that needs no attention, in spite of what some manufacturers might tell you.
DG
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@dreamthemes said:
It's relevant to me-I am trying to weigh up which 64 bit platform i should go for. Apple is an expensive way to go, so if windows is a more open ended and powerful system, of course i will go windows,but i have very little tech knowledge. Thanks though DGThanks again DG-Appreciated.May i ask ,as you are obviously in the know, what sytem do you have? and what in your opinion is currently the most powerful way to take advatage of VI? This would give me a pointer to what i should be aimimg for in a system. cheersIf you go for Windows then you have to write Logic out of the equation.
The best thing to do is to work out exactly what you need to do and then get the OS that provides this. Currently Apple, despite the hype, is not a 64bit platform, even though the OS is. Unless you have some insider knowledge as to when that will change, you may be waiting a few months.
Whatever you choose. I'm afraid that you will need some technical knowledge. There is no such thing as a trouble free platform that needs no attention, in spite of what some manufacturers might tell you.
DG
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@dreamthemes said:
It's relevant to me-I am trying to weigh up which 64 bit platform i should go for. Apple is an expensive way to go, so if windows is a more open ended and powerful system, of course i will go windows,but i have very little tech knowledge. Thanks though DGThanks again DG-Appreciated.May i ask ,as you are obviously in the know, what sytem do you have? and what in your opinion is currently the most powerful way to take advatage of VI? This would give me a pointer to what i should be aimimg for in a system. cheersIf you go for Windows then you have to write Logic out of the equation.
The best thing to do is to work out exactly what you need to do and then get the OS that provides this. Currently Apple, despite the hype, is not a 64bit platform, even though the OS is. Unless you have some insider knowledge as to when that will change, you may be waiting a few months.
Whatever you choose. I'm afraid that you will need some technical knowledge. There is no such thing as a trouble free platform that needs no attention, in spite of what some manufacturers might tell you.
DG
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Brian, let me get back to your initial question. This is how a setup on Mac with lots of RAM and the use of Sibelius and Vienna Ensemble without Logic would work.
Due to limitations in a 32-bit system, it is not possible for a single application to load more than 3 GB RAM. It is indeed possible to load additional stand-alone instances of Vienna Ensemble, which will allow you to load the same amount of sample data again. If you want to open more than one instance of VE stand alone, you have to copy the Vienna Ensemble application and name it differently. The stand alone instances are not recognised from within Sibelius. You have to open them from the applications folder.
In order to communicate from Sibelius with stand-alone VE you have to use IAC or a different MIDI Loop back. Be aware that you cannot load the sound set if you choose IAC or a hardware MIDI-out. However, there is also a way to solve this problem. Open the sound set with the sound set editor or a text editor and change the entry PatchLoadMechanism from "Fixed" to "MIDI". Save the sound set with a different name. Now you can communicate from Sibelius over the IAC-Port with the Stand-alone Vienna Ensemble and the modified sound set takes care of the articulation changes.
The Sibelius and Vienna Ensemble setup guide is also available at this location: http://vsl.co.at/en/68/498/943/239.htm
Best wishes,
Andi
Vienna Symphonic Library -
And the perspective on PC is that if you are using the computer for Sibelius and VI, you could use XP64 with Sibelius (which runs in 32bit mode) and then use VE64bit to load as many samples as you have RAM. On a relatively inexpensive PC (with 8GB RAM) that would most likely be around 7-7.5GB.
If you are worried about compatibility, then set a dual boot with XP32, and you will be able to run all your other applications.
The only thing that you have to be careful with on XP64 is that you get a soundcard with 64bit drivers. A reputable DAW manufacturer should be able to sort all this out.
Currently I am using a farm of PCs connected by FX-Teleport, so am not quite in the same situation as you are.
DG
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thanks DG and Andy!!! at last...the pennies finaly dropped!! these last two mails have sunk in and now i can begin to visualise a sysyem and the way it works!!! thanks!!
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I'd add one more thing: Unique to Intel Macs is the ability to run OSX or Windows. So, if you prefer the MacOS but want to use Windows XP Pro 64 or VISTA 64 so that you can use the 64-bit versions of VE 2 or VE 3 you would have the option of going back to OSX when OSX compatible 64-bit versions of VE 2 and VE 3 become available.
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Hi Stevesong That sounds the best of both worlds at the mo...i have a G5 mac with 4 gig and would like to use that as a standalone with the new mac,(the one i'm interested in is a quad core 3 ghz with 16 gig memory ) When will the the 64-bit compatiable VE's be available do you think? Also i noticed you use an external drive for your samples-the mac i'm going for has 3 built in 750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s drives.Will that be upto the job in your opinion?@stevesong said:
I'd add one more thing: Unique to Intel Macs is the ability to run OSX or Windows. So, if you prefer the MacOS but want to use Windows XP Pro 64 or VISTA 64 so that you can use the 64-bit versions of VE 2 or VE 3 you would have the option of going back to OSX when OSX compatible 64-bit versions of VE 2 and VE 3 become available.
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Brian: Unfortunately the VSL folks have not yet supplied a tentative schedule for the release of 64-bit OSX versions of VE 2 or VE 3. I would assume that it is months away. When you mention using your G5 in conjunction with a MacPro, I'm not sure what you mean. The MacPro would be a lot better for running lots of samples, while you could still use the G5 for the DAW (and run some samples on it. Theoretically you could run lots of samples on the MacPro by using multiple VE 2 standalones under OSX (and use your DAW on the same machine. This would mean that you would not have to purchase Vista 64 etc and run two machines, but I have no idea how well it would work. The 3 750GB drives seem fine to me, but you might want to consider the following setup - one 500GB drive for OS and files. One 500GB drive for recording, two 500 or 750GB drives formatted as a RAID 0 array (with journaling turned off) for the samples. One drawback to using Windows is that I believe, in the event that OSX compatible 64-bit versions of VE 2 and VE 3 become available and you wish to run OSX, I'd guess that you'd have to reformat the sample drives and reinstall the samples. In any case, do not buy drives from Apple. Apple overcharges for drives. The same drives can be purchased at market prices from OtherWorld Computing (http://www.macsales.com/) and www.NewEgg.com for significantly less money. Installation of drives and RAM in a MacPro is very easy. (OtherWorld Computing has online video tutorials showing exactly how to do these things.)
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thanks again STEVESONG.. I'm trying to find a use for the G5 as a networked computer but your way round makes sense-on the G5 i want to use Sibelius as a sketching pad with the Vienna special edition and Vi 's as ive read this can play back these including performance trills etc just like the GPO library does.And link the audio to my Motu 828 firewire on the new Mac Pro.But my main sequencer would be Logic 8 for obvious plug in reasons, and the audio.That link has opened my eyes to how expensive Apple is...the prices are great,on the memory too! Is the memory from Otherworld reliable..its almost half the price ive seen from Apple! With drives in raid that requires a fibre channel card and RAID card,which is £1000 from Apple- which is pushing the finances alot! but def. has advantages i know.
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Brian:
You don't need a fibre channel card for a simple RAID 0 array for sample streaming - - you can make one with software. If you are formatting the disks for OSX, turn journaling off. Although RAID 0 has no redundancy (if one of the drives fails, all data is lost) if the only thing on those drives are the samples then you can reinstall them from DVD or, if you've made disk images of the DVDs on a hard drive, from that hard drive.
As far as Apple's prices for RAM, I think you have understated the discrepancies: 16GB of RAM (8 x 2GB sticks) costs $830.00 at Other World Computing, the same purchased from Apple is $3500.00. 16GB (4 x 4GB) from OWC is $1600.00, the same purchased from Apple is $4300.00 - - etc. etc.
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the Mac RAID card isn't required when striping drives for sample transfer?!That saves me wasting money on that!Sounds simple enough even for me to implement!! when you say I've got to understand the discrepancies on Apple's ROM prices,are you implying that OWC 's bargain basement computers sticks are unreliable and a 'chance you take' compared to usings Apple's own?@stevesong said:
Brian:
You don't need a fibre channel card for a simple RAID 0 array for sample streaming - - you can make one with software. If you are formatting the disks for OSX, turn journaling off. Although RAID 0 has no redundancy (if one of the drives fails, all data is lost) if the only thing on those drives are the samples then you can reinstall them from DVD or, if you've made disk images of the DVDs on a hard drive, from that hard drive.
As far as Apple's prices for RAM, I think you have understated the discrepancies: 16GB of RAM (8 x 2GB sticks) costs $830.00 at Other World Computing, the same purchased from Apple is $3500.00. 16GB (4 x 4GB) from OWC is $1600.00, the same purchased from Apple is $4300.00 - - etc. etc.
